Jimmy Slattery has a decent shot at beating Joe Louis

I have returned from my ban to overrate Jimmy Slattery.

Slats has the style, athleticism, speed and power to trouble the Brown Bomber, despite being inconsistent. A peak Slattery has all the tools Billy Conn had (albeit a lesser chin) that troubled Joe, and was arguably more powerful as well.

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Now, we obviously still have to mention Slattery's knockout losses. He did manage to lose to Dave Shade (although there were reports saying Slattery was intoxicated during the fight, which we can't prove or disprove), Paul Berlenbach and Braddock. These cannot be ignored in a fantasy fight with Louis.

However, Louis' faults cannot be ignored as well. His slow, shuffling foot movement is effective but it's still just that; slow. Louis often struggles against evasive fighters, even when he outweighs them heavily. Judging from the film, Slattery is much quicker than Conn, Walcott or Bob Pastor. I can definitely see Slattery dancing circles around Joe.

What would Slattery's chances be against Louis? I would personally still favour Joe, but Slats would be a live underdog and one of the most frustrating light heavyweights he could've fought. Thoughts?

 

Slattery was very much dependent on his athletic capabilities, as the flaws you've described show. He keeps his chin in the air, mostly uses his jab as a means to keep Paul away from him instead of actually using it, and relies on a right hand counter. He looks limited in the film we have of him. However, there's probably more to him than this fight considering he had close fights with a much more versatile fighter in Loughran. He also beat a pretty good puncher in Jack Delaney, who has film on YouTube. He also looks more versatile than Slattery in this film.

 

Much appreciated, Greg.

Arguments for Slattery:

• Billy Conn was ahead vs Louis after 12 rounds in their 1st fight

Also that elusive, quick fighters trouble Louis, even lesser ones than Slattery.

Arguments for Louis:

• Conn was bigger than Slattery

Somewhat. Conn weighed 168 in the first Louis fight, and prime Slattery was around 163-165. However, he has weighed as high as 170 in some of his bigger fights.

• Conn was better than Slattery

Can't argue with that.

• Louis was 2-0 (2) vs Conn, dominating the rematch

I don't value the rematch very much, and Conn gave Louis a great struggle in their first match due to his speed and elusiveness. Slattery is quicker and more elusive than Conn.

• Louis dominated and KO'd Braddock. Braddock KO'd Slattery

Never followed the 'he beat him so the that means the guy that beat him must beat the other guy' logic, although I agree that Braddock's knockout of Slattery is important in this debate.

• Louis was 2-0 vs a HW who was bigger and better (at HW) than Slattery, with a similar mobile style, in Bob Pastor

We don't have enough of Slattery at heavyweight to fully acknowledge his feats. He beat Tom Heeney despite being past it and at a significant weight disadvantage, but that's mostly it. Slattery is much more mobile than Pastor.

• Louis won by KO1 against a far greater LHW than Slattery in JHL. Yes, JHL had had an eye injury, but he was on a 16 fight winning streak, including KO'ing Elmer Ray 8 months earlier and outpointing the excellent Al Gainer over 15 rounds 3 months earlier.

Good point, the fight can definitely go the John Henry Lewis rout.

• Joe Louis is one of the greatest HW punches of all time. The 153lbs Dave Shade, who scored 17 KO's in his 221 fights, stopped Slattery inside 3 rounds.

Also true, although there's still the possibility of Slattery being intoxicated in that bout. I've seen reports indicating that, which isn't the case for the Berlenbach and Braddock losses.

• Louis was about 35lbs heavier than Slattery prime for prime and is generally considered to be much, much better relative to their respective sizes

Louis was 30 pounds heavier than Conn as well.

• Common sense

Overrated!

 

Bob Pastor.

Yes, both Louis and Conn were past it. That's why I don't value the rematch, it doesn't say anything about either man IMO.

 

Pastor proved that elusive footwork can trouble Joe in their first fight, although I don't think he won that fight. Slattery is quicker and more powerful than Pastor, not to mention much more unorthodox.

I know, Louis wasn't at his best either. That's also why I don't value it, neither man was in his prime so why should I treat it as if they were?

Also, saying Slattery is nowhere near the top 100 almost, just almost, made me shed a tear of sorrow. If you are looking to strike pain into me, Greg, then it is working

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Slats > McCoy and Levinsky (who was past prime). Louis still did struggle with the other evasive fighters you named outside of John Henry Lewis, which is a good example for your point

 

Pastor's footwork was the main reason he survived in their first encounter, and in relevance to the Slattery fight I think he did trouble Louis. Being able to go all 10 in a somewhat competitive bout is very impressive for Pastor. Slattery, IMO, has better footwork, speed and movement than both Conn and Pastor. His pace and cardio is also quite impressive, if he did keep that Berlenbach fight-tier pace for the entire fight.

Conn's footwork and movement absolutely did play a key role in the Louis fight. He wouldn't have survived without it, but you do raise a good point in Conn's 'absorption' of Louis, so to speak. Conn's infighting was also a key role in the fight, something he was better than Slattery at. But Conn's movement also played a role.