I think that the most common critique given against Joe Louis, including by myself, is that he struggles against boxers with excessive movement, both in H2H matches and in his actual matches. What's the truth?
I think Billy Conn's trainer had it right when he said: "You guys have it all wrong. You don't box Joe Louis. Put all the boxers you like in front of Louis and he'll find them. No, you need to fight Louis. Fight him every minute of every round, you need someone who can take his punches and give him some back. That's how you beat him". Footage of the Conn fight shows the above statement was not misdirection.
Sounds like Greb would stand more of a chance than I thought. Also seems like Frazier would stand more of a chance I thought as well
If Greb felt the 180-odd lbs Tunney had gotten too big for him by the time of their 5th fight (yes, I know Greb was passed his peak) then I think he'd struggle vs Louis. Frazier, yeah, sure, if he gets out of the 1st 5 rounds without sustaining too much damage, Louis would be in trouble.
It's very likely that Tunney weighed well over 180 in the other Greb fights, I've seen a few articles klompton posted suggesting that. I am a firm believer that if Conn is capable of smothering Louis and frustrating him with his movement, then Greb certainly would. If only we had actual footage of him to get a clearer idea of what he looked like. I agree that Frazier would need to survive an onslaught in those earlier rounds, but I also feel like his 'cold early rounds' aura is just a tad over-exaggerated. While Frazier peaked in the later rounds, he was more than capable of taking his opponents out early. I believe most of his knockouts actually came before round 5, albeit against lesser opposition.
Movement probably prolonged your suffering against Louis. He was most likely going to get you eventually.
In my opinion one of the most over used cliche's in boxing history is, " well he's a good fighter but guys who can box and move give him trouble" geez! a guy who can do that gives everyone trouble.!
Lol. Exactly guys! Imo, Louis was somewhat under performed vs Conn anyway but he ultimately still won. Also, I personally don’t dismiss a degree of “carry” on Louis’ part - at least in the early rounds. IF Louis really had the alleged weaknesses in his game that some interpret from the Conn fight, those “weaknesses” would’ve played out far more prominently during his actual career. Obviously they didn’t play out that way but, at least imo, the Conn fight has long been a very overweighted reference point to project Louis’ unlikely demise in a number of fantasy matches.
I think men who used the ring to their advantage did better against him than those who stood right in front of him
Can somebody point out some rounds for me to watch that show this weakness against movers? There should be dozens of them available.
He had literally 1000's of infamous posts so i am struggling to pick one out. Needle in a haystack doesn't do it justice.