How many heavyweights could have beat Caracas Foreman?

Fighters that could ?

Larry Holmes
Muhammad Ali
Joe Louis
Sonny Liston
Lennox Lewis
Oleksandr Usyk
Jimmy Young ?

 

Ali
Louis
Liston

 

George after losing to Ali and going to war with Lyle was a very different fighter than the one who lost to Young. Caracas George was a killing machine. Watch the fight:

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The Foreman who went to war with Lyle was the same fighter who lost to Young.

 

But a greatly diminished fighter from the one who annihilated Frazier and Norton.

 

Not much of a prime was it...a year or so.

 

Reminds me of Seth Mitchell.

 

60s Ali, obviously right into 1974
FOTC Frazier
Holmes
Louis
Liston



Possibly Lewis with Steward, but I'm not sold on that idea yet.
Possibly Ezzard, Wlad, Vitlali.

 

Yes and he deserves great credit for that....and that's the reason he generally gets in all-time heavyweight top 10s, something he seldom appeared in based on his first career. For example, Boxing International did an all-time computer tourney in 1977- 16 heavyweights were selected and George wasn't one of them (but Ali and Frazier were, so active fighters were considered). Maybe Stanley Weston et al, should have thought more deeply about 'Caracas Foreman'?

 

I agree, and I'd favour Wlad for sure, but there's a caveat on why I don't always offer an opinion on Wlad in all-time h2h contest, due to his constant holding/leaning (e.g. 'double jab - lean in - tie up' (repeat) and a fair bit of tactical 'fouling'- there's a good chat in another thread about this (worst title defences) and a lot of it will depend on how much the ref would allow him to get away with it.

 

At the height of Jimmy Youngs powers he was beat by Ossie O a ten fight novice- twice. This opens the door for a decent few HW's to beat Prime Foreman when he can be beaten by guys on Youngs calibre.

 

I'm not sure the claim is that he "burned out". The usual "claim" is that he was one of those guys that was never the same after his first loss. The evidence is there. There are no shortage of stories of his woes post Ali and at this point in time it's also pretty obvious the attempt to re-invent his style wasn't exactly bedding in very fast. His ego/psyche really didn't take the loss well and it's there for all to read/study.

When he came back in the 90's he was a totally different human being let alone a different fighter. The fragile psyche was long gone and in it's place was a very stable mentally strong person. It was the maturation that allowed him to compete at a surprisingly high level again and allowed him to take advantage of his immense talents however much they were dimmed by age.

 

A bit harsh on Jimmy this. Imagine being a Don King fighter who tries to rip you off from your $500 total purse, then you get robbed in your only attempt at the title and lose a fight thisclose for another stab at the title (and the crown itself as it turned out). Then your pitted against King's 'new' favourite heavyweight and lose a debatable decision. It must have been hard for Jimmy to stay motivated when the guy controlling you generally rooted for everyone else- and paid you less than anyone (including massive deductions based on whether you won your previous fight or not).

By the way, i'm the president of the Merseyside Jimmy Young Fan Club, we're always recruiting members- the annual subscription gets you the best deal. You receive the Jimmy Young DVD collection, a Jimmy Young sticker book and Jimmy Young Sings TSOP (The Sounds of Philadelphia) covering tracks by Harold Melvin & The Bluenotes, The Three Degrees and The Trammps.

And every autumn the Sealed Knot society recreate Jimmy's UK tour of 1973/74....as a reminder, while the UK was experiencing the 3-day week to save on electricity as a result of the miners strike, Jimmy boosted the country's morale with two fights in Mayfair and the Sealed Knot's re-enact his great stoppage of Richard Dunn and his clinic vs Billy Aird. Admission is free to all members. The guy who plays Richard Dunn is the ringer of him too- a country bumpkin farmer who's necked too much of his homemade cider.

 

I could well imagine Jimmy in Philly Soul mode dedicating a Harold Melvin song to some ringside judges with slightly altered lyrics "We all have our funny scores I got mine and you sure got yours too" Or how about Jimmy tinkering with a Three Degrees song lyric? Gazing intently at the same ringside judges "Yes this is the fight to score a dodgy decision. You gotta get it together"

 

I believe a prime or near prime version of Jimmy Young would give any version of Foreman problems, even the Caracas one.