Prime Oleksander Usyk vs Past greats

Beats Wlad unless the holding spoils him landing too much, beats Vitali, loses to M.Tyson, beats Ali or at least does far bette anyone Ali beat, probably loses to Foreman in a great fight, beats Frazier in a barn burner, loses to Fury on points, beats Holy in a great fight, loses to Lewis in a close fight, beats Povetkin, Laing was too easy to hit and only threw hooks , beats Wilder, toys with Haye, toys with Nelson and beats Vander in a close fight.

 

There are many things that we don't see from Usyk

One: HE IS VERY INACTIVE.

I could imagine how hard it would be for him, when there are fights every 4-5 months and he don't have so much time to rest and train his long ass training camps.

He beat AJ, which is solid, but right now that don't tell us much.

He was very tired from WBSS.


I can tell 100% that Myke Tysons style would beat the **** out of him.

 

Prime Wlad - has some chance against the straight-line robotic guy
Prime Vitali - has some chance, similar against Wlad, but probably a bit less
Prime Mike Tyson - not a chance
Prime Muhammad Ali - a minor chance
Prime George Foreman - has some chance
Prime Joe Fraizer - a minor chance
Prime Tyson Fury - not a chance
Prime HW Evander Holyfield - a minor chance
Prime Lennox Lewis - not a chance
Prime Alexander Povetkin - good chance
Prime Deontay Wilder - average chance, as he can outbox him all the way, but I doubt he can survive the punches and yes, Usyk is hittable

Prime Haye - most probably wins
Prime Johnny Nelson - surely wins
Prime CW Evander Holyfield - has some chance

Overall, very few fights he surely or most probably wins. He barely had a draw against Briedis, being noticeably bigger, but he had a gift that night. Also considering the above listed and the fact Usyk said Briedis was his hardest fight.

 

He has a great chance against all of them, especially those who had minimal to no southpaw experience, which is most of them. Usyk's chin, engine, speed, skills, experience and mentality, combined with his southpaw stance, make him a nightmare matchup for anyone. Also, most of the fighters you listed were big A-siders, so in a fantasy matchup with neutrality they are further disadvantaged.

 

All garbage. Southpaw heavyweights above Euro level (including a modern LHW in Milde who gave prime Ali an 11.5 round war) didn't even exist until 1994 and they've been nightmares ever since, even for heavies with a lot of southpaw experience.

Southpaws are hugely overrepresented as victors against top heavyweights

- One of Holyfield's five losses in his 30's was to southpaw Moorer

- One of Vitali's two losses was to southpaw Byrd

- One of Wlad's four losses in his 20's and 30's was to southpaw Sanders

- Two of Joshua's three losses have come against southpaw Usyk

5/14 or 36%: southpaws have beaten top heavyweights at 2-3 times the rate of orthodox fighters.

- Even in defeat southpaws are often among the most competitive and dangerous opponents: Thompson vs Wlad 1, Ortiz vs Wilder 1, Wallin vs Fury (and Wlad, Wilder and Fury all had a lot of southpaw experience)

- Holmes, Tyson, Bowe and Lewis never fought a southpaw of note as pros

- Holmes was KO’d twice (KO3 and TKO1) by a 5’10, 205 lbs, future journeyman southpaw (his only KO losses as an amateur)

Southpaw heavyweights barely existed prior to the 90's, nobody wanted to fight them (hence most historical heavyweights were untested against them), there wasn’t a southpaw heavyweight title challenger until 1966, a southpaw heavyweight champion until 1994 and the two most accomplished southpaw heavyweights prior to Usyk were former sub-cruisers.

 

1966 Ali vs 2018 Usyk

Ali: 24 years old, started boxing age 12, 88 confirmed amateur bouts with a record of 80-8 (3 rounders, 247 rounds max), 25 pro (144 rounds contested), stopped 9 pro opponents who were 197+ lbs

Usyk: 31 years old, started boxing age 15, 350 amateur bouts with a record of 335-15 (3-4 rounders, 1076-1332 rounds max), 6 WSB (25 rounds contested), 14 pro (105 rounds contested), stopped 11 WSB/pro opponents who were 197+ lbs (pre-rehydration)

Ali had been knocked down from head shots twice in the previous 15 fights/4.5 years (Sonny Banks, Henry Cooper), was almost exclusively a head hunter, hadn’t fought a southpaw in 6 years, had lost to at least two southpaws in the amateurs (Kent Green by TKO2, Amos Johnson by SD3), 2013 Usyk was heavier than 28/33 of Ali’s pre-Mathis opponents (Ali himself was very big for his era) and as much as 9 lbs heavier than 1966 Ali, who had gone the distance with 5 of his 25 pro opponents (17-9-1 186 lbs Hunsaker, 15-11-1 225 lbs Sabedong, 18-7 189 lbs Johnson, 23-3-1 188 lbs Jones, 34-11-2 216 lbs Chuvalo), whereas Usyk (the best southpaw heavyweight ever) hasn’t been stopped or dropped with a headshot in a combined total of 376 fights, amateur and pro.

1966 Ali had a highly competitive fight with 49-2-3 European champion southpaw Mildenberger over 11.5 rounds (Ali admitted that he found Mildenberger’s stance and boxing ability very difficult to deal with), who was billed as being 6’1.5 with a 73 inch reach and 195 lbs (4-3-1 in non-KD rounds according to two of the three judges, 154-144 punches landed out of 612-538 thrown according to Compubox; by contrast Usyk outlanded the 6’2, 79.5 inch reach, 198 lbs, undefeated Olympian Hunter 321-190, throwing 905-794 over 12 rounds). Mildenberger had been KO’d twice (once in the 1st round by 30-12-2, 201 lbs Dick Richardson, who had 2 stoppage wins in his previous 9 fights and 0 in his only 2 fights after) and dropped numerous times in 54 pro fights, registered a 31% KO ratio with 0 KO’s in his previous 5 fights and had a 52-12 amateur record, with winning the German LHW championship being his best amateur accomplishment.

Usyk has studied Ali extensively, sparred and beaten many opponents influenced by him and has modern advantages in terms of training and "nutrition", as well as a tougher upbringing being from a working-class family in post-Soviet Ukraine, with a modern Eastern European style that Ali never experienced (the old Soviet school was limited to the amateurs in those days).

Ali’s objective chance = sub-5%.

 

Oleksandr Usyk > Lennox Lewis

Usyk’s wins: Briedis (B-side), Joshua x2 (B-side)

3-0

Lewis’s wins: V. Klitschko (A-side), Holyfield (neutral)

Lewis’s draw: Holyfield (B-side)

Lewis’s losses: McCall (A-side), Rahman (A-side)

2-2-1

Despite turning pro at nearly 24 after having close to 100 amateur bouts and primarily being a boxer-puncher, Lewis didn’t beat 10 of his opponents inside the distance (4 loss streak short notice Ocasio, vulnerable journeyman Billups, crackhead Tucker, 24-5 crackhead McCall 1, 42 year old Holmes victim Mercer, fleet-footed 214 lbs journeyman-basher vegetarian Mavrovic, former 190 pounder near-Ruiz Holyfield x2, 20 lbs overweight inactive 5’9 Tua, 8 years boxing experience Rahman 1) and only dropped one of them (Tucker), with 13 of the 34 he beat inside the distance being 192-221 lbs. Lewis never stopped an opponent after the 8th round (strongly suggesting that his stamina/pacing was lacking) and he got one-punch KO’d early twice in or around his prime by gatekeepers (a fate befallen by no other reigning champion in any weight class before or since and repeats of his KO3 defeat to Abadzhan in the amateurs; one of Lewis’s 5 listed non-walkover losses to Soviet school fighters out of 10 defeats).

Usyk has an excellent chin (there is no record of Usyk being knocked down with a head shot in his entire 376 fight career and Lewis wasn’t a prolific body puncher), engine, speed, agility, co-ordination, balance, ring IQ, focus, composure, confidence, determination, experience, southpaw stance, elite skills, is an undefeated, undisputed cruiserweight champion (the first of the four belt era), unified heavyweight champion and 2x P4P No.1.

Emmanuel Steward stated that Wlad was a superior athlete to Lewis, more intelligent, more experienced, naturally bigger and more powerful with better fundamentals, as well as far less injury prone, more experienced, considerably more powerful, athletic and more fundamentally sound than Vitali: the same Kronk-schooled Wlad that Usyk was able to “boss” and “twist up” in sparring (one of many SHW’s, Vitali included, that Usyk has trained with, sparred or fought). Lewis was getting outboxed by Bruno before Bruno’s chin and engine predictably gave out in the 7th, he was 4-2 down and fatigued against B-side contender SHW Vitali after 6 when the fight was inconclusively stopped on cuts and he reneged on his post-fight promise to give Vitali a rematch.

Lewis wasn’t able to overpower a number of smaller heavyweights. The short and stocky Mercer (42 year old Holmes victim, in the midst of a 0 KO’s and 0 KD’s in 6 fights streak) outjabbed Lewis and fought him to a 10 round MD, with no rematch materialising. Lewis had a highly competitive 12 round fight with former 190 pounder Holyfield in the rematch (even with the considerable advantage of having Holyfield’s ex-trainer), who had lost three times, been KO’d in 8 by Bowe 4 years prior and was on the cusp of going 1-1-1 with J. Ruiz. Lewis also struggled with and gassed against the 214 lbs light punching domestic and area level basher vegetarian Mavrovic, who Lewis claimed was his most fleet-footed opponent. M. Scott: a Lewis, Wlad and Fury sparring partner, Ortiz opponent, amateur standout and 42 pro fight veteran stated that Usyk was the most skilled boxer he’d ever shared a ring with.

“I do not think (Vitali) Klitschko is a fast enough boxer to dance around the ring, so he is going to have to get involved (against Lewis).” - E. Steward

To top it all off, Lewis never fought a southpaw of any note (even dropping the IBF belt to sidestep Vitali-conqueror Byrd), whereas the 6’3, 221 lbs, 13 year unbeaten, 20-0, more modern athlete Usyk recorded a historic P4P win by outclassing A-side three belt unified champion KO artist SHW Joshua in Joshua’s backyard (Usyk’s 10th time fighting away, which he’s done in 7/9 of his championship fights) as a 5/2 underdog in his 3rd heavyweight pro fight and his first heavyweight championship fight. No cruiserweight had ever clearly beaten a SHW with Joshua's credentials prior to Usyk doing so, let alone as the B-side and Usyk repeated this feat in the Saudi rematch, which was contested during the Russo-Ukrainian war. Usyk is the best cruiserweight and southpaw heavyweight of all time so Lewis would probably struggle even more than Wlad did, who had far more experience sparring, fighting and beating good southpaw heavyweights than any other heavyweight in history.

Usyk wins by SD (if Lewis didn’t duck).

 

Hard to say hypothetically but lewis vs usyk would be my Major appealin

 

The only question that will be asked for the future onwards is was he better than Holyfield

Usyk will retire after fighting and losing to Fury in Dec/Jan/Feb.

If he elevates himself above Holyfield then who cares who he could beat. He is a cruiserweight that can compete with heavys. That's good enough.

 

Shut up you absolute fool.

We’ve all debated you many times.

If you really think that based upon your statistics that a guy like Ali would only have had a sub-5% chance against Usyk, then I suggest that you stop watching the sport and instead turn your attention to the Tour De France which starts on Saturday.

 

Yeah.

Apparently, Ali struggled with Mildenburger.

Apparently, Ali and everybody else wouldn’t have been able to have beaten Usyk, as they’d had no southpaw experience.

Meanwhile, back on planet Earth, Usyk has only had 4 fights at HW, where he also barely beat Breidis at CW.

This clown thinks that Mike Tyson wouldn’t even have had a chance of beating Usyk.

He’ll ignore the stylistic match ups etc, just to focus solely on that one single factor.

Clown city.

 

I love it how some (two) of the most passionate Usyk **cks*****s avoid such threads at all costs. They prefer to make Usyk shines with a victory over an imaginary fight against Fury, but not anyone else. Speaks enough for their objectivity and how high they really see their idol.

 

HW
Prime Wlad: usyk loses
Prime Vitali: usyk loses
Prime Mike Tyson: usyk loses
Prime Muhammad Ali: usyk loses
Prime George Foreman: usyk loses
Prime Joe Frazier: usyk loses
Prime Tyson Fury: usyk wins
Prime HW Evander Holyfield: usyk loses
Prime Lennox Lewis: usyk loses
Prime Alexander Povetkin: usyk wins
Prime Clubber Lang: ...........
Prime Deontay Wilder: usyk wins


CW
Prime Haye: usyk wins
Prime Johnny Nelson: usyk wins
Prime CW Evander Holyfield: usyk loses