I miss Muhammad Ali

Had I told the draft board in 1969, when I was classified as 1A, that I couldn't join the military because I was a Christian and killing was against the First Commandment, how do you think that would have turned out? Would the Supreme Court have been lenient on me? You know damn well that wouldn't have happened. In fact, I knew one guy (who eventually was on the front of Time Magazine) that he was against the war in Vietnam because in his mind it was an unjust war. Guess what, he spent years in a Federal Penitentiary. No he and I weren't heroes to the liberal establishment at the time.

Yes, I agree that Ali had assuming he would be going to jail. They should have put in in jail instead of running his mouth off for 3 1/2 years.
IMO.

 

I miss the fact that he ducked no one in the ring. Unlike the paper champions of today

 

Great post, Ali will never be forgotten. I'm like you guys glad to have been around during Ali's career I might not agree with his religious beliefs but I applaud his standing by them He kept those beliefs throughout his life
Another thing people forget Ali was exiled from boxing for over 3 1/2 years of his prime what else could he have accomplished during that time. He is,was & always will be The Greatest !!!!!!

 

But Frank , what is your opinion of a certain William Jefferson Clinton then Did he deserve to be jailed too ?? I remember he scarpered to England to avoid the draft. His punishment.. They made him President of the United States lol. Ali was prepared to go to jail & stuck to his beliefs He had far more courage than Clinton

 

Your friend went to prison because he distinguished between just and unjust wars. That's not the test the courts use. The test is whether the person is opposed to all war. I had a high school teacher who received conscientious objector status. He was asked if he would have fought Hitler. That would be tough to say no, no matter what I thought of the wisdom or morality of the Vietnam War. But that's the test and that's why many Quakers and Jehovah's Witnesses were granted conscientious objector status.

 

HIs issue was murky. He agreed to enter the ROTC then received a high draft number (as I did) then reneged on his agreement to join that organization. I don't know the legalities around that refusal.

 

Yes my acquaintance's case was turned down, for reasonable legal reasons. The conscientious object issue should not have applied to a Muslim, and I don't care WHAT sect he was in...Shia, Sunni, Nation of Islam, whatever...it is ridiculous to anyone who knows anything about that faith to think that Islam is a faith opposed to making war. We have over 1300 years of proof of that statement. He only got off because it was a liberal court who recognized him as an anti-war celebrity. Do you think out present Supreme Court would come to the same conclusion as the court that validated Ali's stance? Of course not; they'd lock him up.

 

Ali won his case in the Supreme Court 8-0. Thurgood Marshall recused himself because he worked for the DOJ while Ali's case was going through the courts. The Chief Justice was a Republican as well as three other Justices. I would add that the hearing officer who was closest to the case when Ali first refused induction interviewed his family, his friends, and acquaintances and concluded he was sincere and recommended the government approve his request to be a C.O. The government rejected his findings. Do I think this SCOTUS would find in his favor? Yeah. As to Islam being a warlike religion that's a different discussion. It seems all of the Abrahamic religions are okay with war but I digress. Ali's understanding of it is Allah (God) had to sanction it.

 

Actually the point is that the Nation of Islam's beliefs had nothing whatsoever to do with Islam. So whatever your thoughts or opinions on Muslims and Islam should have nothing to do with your view on the Nation of Islam or vice versa. '1300 years' of whatever evidence you think you have should play no part in your judgement of the Nation as they were in no way related - the tenets of the beliefs were/are totally different as the later split should show.

 

War is allowed within Islam. It's no different in that regard from most other faiths.

Ali held a mix of views - some were good, some were appalling. Given the context of that time some of the more hateful ones should perhaps not be surprising. A lot of his views changed over time too. I think too often people have too narrow a view of him and don't look at the whole picture when forming a view. Only a handful of people have ever had the level of fame, pressure and attention he did - I am not sure how people cope with that type of attention, adulation or hate. On the draft for example he showed immense amount of principle and the courage of his convictions.

 

I read Hana's book where she talks about the endless stream of celebrities who would visit their Hancock Park mansion and how she had to share her dad with the world. I think what makes Ali unique as a celebrity is how much other celebrities were infatuated with him. Imagine you're a kid and John Travolta, Clint Eastwood, Michael Jackson, and Jimmy Freaking Swaggart are palling around with your dad.

 

I agree as a Muslim, I'm very very surprised most think Islam and the NATION of Islam are one and the same, when in reality, they literally couldn't be any more different if they tried. Christianity and Judiasm is closer to Islam than the NOI. The NOI is a fraud and truly evil organization that promotes racism and black supremacy (which is just as bad as white supremacy), and believe God was a human being, by the name of Wallace Ford... a criminal locked up multiple times before abruptly disappearing.

 

Ali left the NOI in 1977 in any case. As to Islam it was Ali's understanding of it that he could only participate in a war sanctioned by Allah. That was his understanding of it. Obviously it's not a universal understanding as Muslims serve in the armed forces of many nations. However that doesn't mean Ali's understanding of it was wrong. That's between him and Allah. Are you familiar with the Tallying Angel that Ali believed in?

 

True there are those people who for a variety of reasons transcend 'ordinary' levels of fame.

Re your question about a tallying angel. I believe it's a belief in two angels who record your good and bad deeds. They are mentioned in the Quran.

 

Horrible! May he rest well.