How Realistic are these "facts" about Liston?

Soooo much wrong with your post.

But let’s keep it simple for you. No room for deflection or misdirection.

Tell us ALL that you know re Machen’s allegedly “burning” eyes post fight - as per your OWN quoted words.

Every relevant detail. This should be good.

The floor is yours - illuminate us free thinker.

 

I'd like to know more about what really happened to Eddie 'Hay Fever' Machen that night myself.

 

Agree with this.

 

Ok,about the fists,so what if Sonny's fists were 14'' or 15'' in circumference ? It's a moot point
so why bring it up ?

So according to you Liston was a remarkably slow fighter and you ask to be shown a fight where he
is anything but slow.Watch Liston vs Bethea.Will you follow up on my recommendation for you to watch
Liston vs Machen ? This will disprove Machen's nonsensical ramblings about being blinded by Liston.
Speaking of allegations of malpractise,perhaps you should read Angelo Dundee's view of that incident
in the first Ali fight.Dundee was adamant that the linament,which was being used to treat Liston's
shoulder,got into Ali's eyes accidently.By all means go ahead and disagree with the great Angelo Dundee,
we're all entitled to our opinions.

So according to you it would been standard practise for a fighter to suffer bursitis in the shoulders
for a year,then exacerbate the agony even more in the weeks leading up to the fight,and still go through
with the fight ? I think not.By the way,( I really don't know why I have to keep repeating this fact to you )
several doctors confirmed Sonny had torn a tendon in his shoulder during the fight.To accuse Liston
of quitting is absolutely absurd.You do know that Liston in only his 8th professional fight fought several
rounds with a broken jaw ?

Liston was charged once for allegedly impersonating a police officer with the intention of pulling over a woman.
The charge was dropped.This is hardly evidence that Sonny was a serial sex-pest.
According to you Sonny was a bad person,yet many people witnessed his acts of kindness to those
who were down on their luck.If we're going to concentrate on boxers who behaved appallingly there
would be a few ATGs who would attract our censure.Hmm....let's see.Oh yes,you mentioned Carlos Monzon.
The man who strangled his wife and then threw her off a second-floor balcony.Perhaps Sonny wasn't such
a bad fellow after all.

 

As many have pointed out about Sonny Liston, we really did not have factual proof about his true age only assumptions. Some say Sonny was pushing 40 when he met Cassius Clay ( Muhammad Ali) for the first time on Feb 25 1964, we may never know his true age.

 

The source of the confusion is difficult to nail down but I think I’ve done it.

Sonny was born in 1942 … but he was 40 years old when he was born.

 

“Machen later said he believed that Liston's handlers made deliberate use of illegal medication in an attempt to temporarily blind him during the fight. He theorized that Liston's handlers rubbed medication on their fighter's shoulders, which was transferred to Machen's forehead during clinches and dripped into his eyes. "I thought my eyes would burn out of my head, and Liston seemed to know it would happen," Machen said. When Liston fought”

 

Ha Ha. I wonder when Sonny Liston developed his puppy love for Geraldine?

 

Really good post.

 

Regarding the blue section.
Returning to my original comment everything about Sonny is either slightly exaggerated or offensively exaggerated. His hands keep growing every year.

Regarding the green section.
Show me a clip, please show me, demonstrate his speed pick a round, pick a time on a video. I’ll be waiting for this hidden speedster. You won’t though- he’s slow I know it, you know it, the ring knew it, guys he sparred with said it too. But you’ll need to just show me. I’ve seen both fights, he moves like a lumbering mammoth.

Red section.
No, not really.
“Machen later said he believed that Liston's handlers made deliberate use of illegal medication in an attempt to temporarily blind him during the fight. He theorized that

This content is protected

"I thought my eyes would burn out of my head, and Liston seemed to know it would happen," Machen said. When Liston fought”

Pink section.
Yes common fact, please show me the evidence. Whatever you’ve got- I’d love to see it. I’ve been under the impression he got whipped and just spat the pacifier. I’m willing to be wrong if the evidence is sufficient.

Orange section.
That’s sad. Yes I’m sure the well known criminal leg breaking, drug dealing and using, boozer who had ties to the mafia was a total apple pie. A misunderstood poet, he was a thug who could fight, nothing more there’s a million just like that behind bars.

This isn’t directed at Sonny Liston, you’ll find I do this with everyone. Have I ever demonstrated otherwise? I go after Ali, Foreman and Duran all sweet hearts of the forum much the same.

 

Thanks. More info required though - if it’s a claim that’s meant to be taken seriously.

Machen “later” said - exactly when did Machen make this accusation?

Anyone who Liston beat could make such a claim without it being at all true, you know, taking false “advantage” of the happenstance events in Miami to excuse their own loss 4 years prior.

Also, exactly when during the fight was there evidence of Machen’s eyes being irritated and/or his being visually impaired? Ali’s own issues could not be missed or mistaken.

It seems no one noticed Eddie’s “issues” and Eddie didn’t complain about such at the time - instead, he waited 4 years after the “fact”.

If was a blink or two and then he was fine, it figures after being hit by the likes of Liston.

Surely that’s not the damming “evidence” at hand?

You do realise Eddie was a strange one. Good chance he was lying opportunistically or, at the least, implanting his own false memories post Ali v Liston 1.

 

He said it in 1964, correct. It’s weird though, Liston says something as a literal crumb of a human being and it’s gospel, Machen says his eyes burn in an identical way to Ali, from an identical means of delivery “medication on the shoulder” paraphrasing, but it’s not enough to even consider because Eddie Machens not trust worthy because he’s a bit of a mental patient. I mean are either man really trust worthy? Watch Machen back pedaling being gun shy, then checkout when Ali was claiming his eyes were burning- that’s as good as it gets for evidence. Or maybe did he fight one armed like originally he said? No he must’ve been in perfect condition, everyone but my favourites are liars.

 

Liston probably had an over 80" reach but an 84 inch reach on a 6'1" man would look downright loony visually and I can't find any pictures that show this absolute out of proportion reach. UFC fighter Jon Jones has an 84.5" reach at 6'4" and you can see how crazy his arm proportions are here . Liston should have photos that look even crazier as he's shorter than Jon.

 

Without straying off the simple point.

Summation: Machen said absolutely nothing at the time and there is no evidence of his being visually impaired during the fight in 1960.

Machen only made the claim AFTER Liston vs Ali 1 in 1964, opportunistically jumping on Ali’s own issues during round 5 in Miami.

As I recall reading, shortly after his fight with Liston, Machen had plenty to say re Liston - and nothing complimentary - but no mention of his being “blinded” or his eyes being unduly irritated - surely a MUST inclusion - had it been true.

All other features are irrelevant.

Eddie’s claim has no “substance” to it whatsoever, pun intended.

 

Well that's not very nice