Which name boosts Wilder’s ATG standing most?

well, the current era is as thin as tissue paper

 

You forgot the option someone he could actually beat.

 

He has beaten no one at this point. So you think Jpshua and Usyk are everyone??/

 

1. No, he doesn't.
2. Log off.

 

Wilder isn't an ATG and isn't going to go down as one, because he doesn't have the wins.

He does have ATG power and has been hellaciously fun to watch. People will miss him when he's gone and the best American HW is suddenly Jared Anderson.

 

Wrong. I'm not a big "rankings" guy and never have been. I've written a post criticising the "top 10 wins" myopia:

List the metrics in which Adamek did better against Vitali than Chisora or at least be honest enough to admit that there are none.

"And pretty much always failed when he stepped up fact, you don't get prizes for"

You give Vitali a huge amount of credit for his "unlucky" injury-quitjob to blown-up LHW/small cruiser Byrd and "unlucky" B-side cut stoppage after failing to stop a suspect-chinned Lewis over 6 rounds. Why does he get "prizes" for winning rounds but losing the fights? In fact, Chisora has three wins when he "stepped up" as the underdog (Scott, Takam, Pulev 2), Vitali has one (Hide).

 

IMO Wilder would also miss that one second in the Fury 4 fight. So Usyk would launch Wilder better, and then IMO Usyk wouldn't rise from some of the knockdowns that Fury did. But again the question is whether Usyk would be knocked down, but in 30 rounds (how many rounds did Wilder box with Fury in total) Usyk would be knocked down at least once, and once would be enough.

 

Hold on a minute aren't you the one that brings up rankings normally ? yet when it doesn't fit your agenda or argument it's dismissed ? i got you.

Adamek ranked number 3 Heavyweght in the world 44-1 record, two weight division champion who was 6-0 at Heavyweight. Compared to Chisora not ranked in the top 10 who was 1-2 in his last 3 fights with a 15-2 record.

Like what is it with you and Chisora seriously ? like you ridiculously claimed he would beat Joe Louis in another thread. You just repeat the samething over and over in every Heavyweight thread whether it be Wilder, Chisora, Usyk, or any modern Heavyweight with your biased takes. The fact is Chisora was a fringe contender with 13 losses, he was given many chances sometimes not always deserving of that chance and failed at the top level end of. You can keep harping on about him winning 3 rounds vs Vitali who 40+ with a bad shoulder he lost a wide decision end of.

Samuel Peter is also nothing special but he was better win than Chisora at that time end of there is no debate about it, and H2H between the two there would probably be nothing in it.

And Wilder has not proved he could beat anyone better than Luis Ortiz ? who was old and who's best win is Jennings, Martin. The only difference between the two is that Vitali looked less beatable against B, C, class fighters.

Both of their resumes are weak and both get praised for their losses against Lewis, Fury.

Also your the one that's hypocritical your the one that claims Usyk can beat the likes of Lewis, Tyson, when he's had a grand total of 4 fights at Heavyweight and only against 1 good Heavyweight. Your never objective in any debate when it comes to modern Heavyweights, you have some of the worst takes i've ever seen that's why i ignore your posts. And after i've finished writing this post out i'm not gonna bother replying or reading your posts.

I never only favour old skool fighters i think Heavyweights today do well in most eras, but some of them are unproven and haven't fought enough styles to have any conclusive opinion yet.

Well Adamek, Peter, were on win streaks ? and ranked because of that ? Chisora was 1-2 ? and not ranked because of that ? how hard is that comprehend ? I don't care what your opinion is of Chisora. The fact is Adamek, Peter, were better wins at that time end of.

And i would say it's very debatable whether or not Chisora could beat either of them.

Has Wilder ever fought someone as big as and skilled as Lewis who hits as hard ? no. Vitali has only been cut once in 47 fights that's not being susceptible to cuts is it ? someone like Jose Napoles, Henry Cooper, would fall in that category.

Excuse me ? have i not said both Wilder, Vitali, have weak resumes ? have i not said both men would probably be favoured to be beat either of their best wins ? so tell me what agenda i have ? the only thing i said was that Vitali looked better and less beatable against B, C, class opposition which is true is it not ?

I'm the not one with the agenda making Usyk a H2H GOAT after 4 Heavyweight fights.

Well Holyfield was 215 pounds of solid muscle, so not really sure why your bringing up 190 pounds agenda maybe ? Douglas fought arguably one of the most impressive performances ever for a Heavyweight. It's widely considered in the top 10 performances ever for a Heavyweight, not just because of the upset but because of the skills Douglas displayed in the fight. Oh also Douglas was on a hot streak coming off one of the best jabbing exhibittions ever vs Mike Williams where he dropped him 3 times with a jab. Not to mention wins over Berbick, McCall, who are better than 98 percent of Wilder's resume.

Anything else i missed out on ?

Also not sure why your bringing up your personal feelings on a fighter ? Does that not show biased agenda ? What has Tyson being "R*****" or in your words "sh****g" got anything to do with his ability or achievements in the ring ?

Finally this is my last reply to you because i know you'll be waffling on for pages and pages as you like to do with your awful takes I got better things to do. But have fun "ShortRound" "Neetzchean" i wonder how long it will take you to get banned on this account aswell ?

"Back on ignore list"

 

"The fact is Chisora was a fringe contender with 13 losses"

Jimmy Young had 18 losses (what a bum!), partly because he fought the best men he could, partly because he went on too long and partly because he was a consistent B-side. The same applies to Chisora.

"winning 3 rounds vs Vitali who 40+ with a bad shoulder he lost a wide decision end of."

How many rounds did TKO'd Adamek win against 40+ Vitali? How many injuries did he cause Vitali? Why does Vitali get so much credit for winning rounds and losing but Chisora not? In what ways did Adamek perform better than Chisora? You won't answer me on this because to answer it would be self-defeating.

"but he was better win than Chisora at that time end of there is no debate about it"

Peter far performed worse than the better conditioned, more skilled, more confident, more determined Chisora against Vitali and their other mutual opponents, so of course it's "debatable" as to which win is better. Wins can look better or worse in retrospect, I'm not just going by "what people thought at the time".

"The only difference between the two is that Vitali looked less beatable against B, C, class fighters."

Some other differences: Wilder is a much bigger puncher, Wilder is faster, Wilder has a longer reach, Wilder never quit on an injury, Wilder never got stopped on a cut etc.

"your the one that claims Usyk can beat the likes of Lewis, Tyson"

You're the one who doesn't know the difference between "you're" and "your".

Of course Usyk could beat them (if we had a time machine). You talk about many modern heavies being unproven against certain "styles" but how many Usyk-type opponents did they fight? Scratch that, how many southpaws? They've got zero experience against that "style", thus it's entirely reasonable to favour Usyk over them, who is clearly superior in many respects to both as well.

"Vitali has only been cut once in 47 fights that's not being susceptible to cuts is it ?"

Most of Vitali's short plodding opponents struggled to land headshots on a backfoot Vitali, though Kevin marked front foot Vitali up with his jab. You're more likely to get cut when opponents come to win and have the attributes to reach you, which Vitali's generally did not. Vitali lost once on B-side cut stoppage and once on an injury-quitjob, so of course he's more vulnerable to these means of losing than Wilder is based on the available evidence, two losses being as many losses as Lewis had in a similar number of fights to one-punch KO's from wide underdog fringe contenders.

"Vitali looked better and less beatable against B, C, class opposition which is true is it not ?"

He looked less beatable (although I don't know because he found ways to lose in ways other than getting chinned or outpointed) but also less dangerous, which is the other side of the coin that you conveniently ignore. Which is why I think Wilder would have had an excellent chance of going through Vitali's record unbeaten: he has more than enough speed and power to bomb 257 lbs Lewis out and wouldn't quit vs Byrd even if he popped his shoulder and wasn't in an insurmountable lead.

"It's widely considered in the top 10 performances ever for a Heavyweight"

Joshua made Ruiz look like a demon too but Tyson was more hyped than Joshua being a cult figure in America, hence these narratives to excuse his defeats. He was an absurdly overrated fighter in his time and still is now: 44/1 underdog Douglas, 25/1 underdog Holyfield 1, 5/2 underdog Holyfield 2, only a 7/4 underdog vs Lewis. It goes to show the level of religious faith that people had in his abilities.

"Back on the ignore list"

You'll peak again.

 

USKY is supposedly already in the discussion for beating shot old delboy and Joshua. Does wilder get no credit for putting AJ to sleep in Saudi?

I know obese Andy got there first when he made AJ QUIT on his big US debut, but if it’s good enough for USKY…

 

Wlad and Povektins resumes are infinitely better than Ortiz. That's the problem. To this date, Ortiz best win is Jennings from like, 2014. I have no doubt that Ortiz was a top operator but that doesn't excuse the fact that he doesn't have the resume to back up the hype he gets.

 

That's it, he's closer to being Earnie Shavers in a pitiful era of heavyweight boxing.

 

Strawman argument.

Usyk, spelled U S Y K, not USKY, was a four belt unified undefeated Cruiserweight champion who moved up and dethroned the current champion. He is in the discussion due to his total career accomplishments, not just because he beat Joshua.

AJ has lost three out of his last six. Wilder would have received credit if he managed to find his spine and fight AJ prior to this but admitted himself that he picked Fury instead so NO.

When speaking of being an all time great, as opposed to a hall of fame worthy boxer, you look at their total career.

These things shouldn't have to be explained.

 

If he manages the Usyk fight and knocks him out that’d be icing on the cake.