Just finished Joe Frazier's autobiography

Joe seemed like a nice guy. Did he trash his opponents in his book? Usually athletes build up their opponents because it makes them look better after beating them . Apropos of nothing I can name four incidents where Ali could have really hurt an opponent and backed off and in boxing someone can get hurt or killed in what is literally an instant.

 

I know this thread relates to Joe Frazier's autobiography but in reality, this is a bash at Muhammad Ali's right to his own religion. This to me sounds more like a Lounge related subject, not Classic Boxing. I do not think that anybody has the right to judge another in relation to their religious practices, or have to be sorry to any of us for their past comments. As a talented poster put it, Ali with his so called insulting comments made many insulted fighters a lot of money with his name calling, part of the promotion. Who are we to judge? And to be completely honest, Joe Frazier was one heck of a good champion fighter and man but he was no saint, he was human. He was very imbittered because many in the media were saying that he lived in Ali's shadow. Sure he bested Ali in The Fight Of The Century on March 8 1971, fair and square. But there were a few that said that Frazier fought a fighter that had only 18 rounds of boxing in 43 months, to those few credit was denied in the huge win over Ali. This bout was very political, if you were for Joe Frazier, you were for the war in Vietnam, if you were for Ali, you were against the war in Vietnam, 3 months after their epic battle won by Frazier, The U.S Supreme Court settled that debate, they unanimously ruled in favor of Ali. Both were great fighters but both were men also.

 

Ali was a complex guy. He was arguably one of the three most important African American figures of the twentieth century. That's a lot of responsibility for one man.

 

And sometimes posters forget what Muhammad Ali had to endure as an African American male growing up in the 1950's Kentucky, it was not pleasant, racial slurs, discriminating treatment. So maybe Ali's family budget was better than Joe Frazier's, so what? Is that he fault of Ali's? Life sometimes gives us lemons but then it is up to us to make the best of it and stop whining about it. Joe Frazier was calling Ali, Clay even before their big fight, way before. Joe was asked about this, Joe responded with: I Call Him Cassius Clay Because That Is What His Momma Named Him. Joe was calling Ali this when Ali ruled the heavyweight title from 1964-1967, he made judgement on Ali's behavior in the ring back then.

 

At the risk of going off on a forum inappropriate tangent - who would you say are the other two?

 

Joe Frazier grew up in the South Carolina Low Country. Muhammad Ali grew up in Louisville. They both experienced segregation as a youth. By some accounts Muhammad Ali grew up like the Frash Prince Of Bellaire. He grew up in a working class home. His father was a sign painter and his mother stayed at home. He did have the benefit of being only one of two children and his father wasn't absent except when he was chasing other women and drinking. All that being said Joe had the rougher life. That's why he left home and moved to PHI. But they both faced the indignity of not being able to eat where they want, go to the bathroom where they want, live where they want because they were Black. I lwill say that Ali loved to be loved.

 

Dr. King and Malcolm X. The irony or maybe not is they were all contemporaries and were aware of the others.

 

Obviously Kareem Abdul-Jabbar wasn't as famous as Muhammad Ali but he was famous enough. I don't remember anybody insisting on calling him Lew Alcindor.

 

I agree but why do people blame Ali's better life finanacially on him. Life is what you make it sometimes. The ideal life is to have all of the needs in life met, shelter, food, medical care, clothes on your back, and loving parents who work to support you emotionally and financially. I know that Joe had a tougher childhood but it is not the fault of Muhammad Ali's, it is sometimes fate, Joe's father lost an arm from what I understand, Joe worked in a slaughterhouse. But people and circumstances are different, again fate. You cannot go thru life with bitterness because of your childhood, nobody I know including myself had the perfect childhood but as adults we can learn from it and excel in life.

 

Absolutely, he legally changed his name too. I do not call Matthew Saad Muhammad, Matthew Franklin or Ali Cassius Clay, it is very disrespectful and racist.

 

It's relative, Richard. Muhammad had a better life than Joe but they both grew up Black in the Jim Crow south. And Ali was a prodigy. He was a prospect from the time he was fifteen year old. He wasn't going to be working in a slaughterhouse.

 

I thought those might be the other two names - to state the obvious remarkable company to be in and amazing to be such a significant part of shaping that era.

 

That’s why I said Joe was probably bitter because beating Ali … and he did it only once in three times … didn’t knock him off his pedestal because Ali was more than a prize fighter in the grand scheme of things and as great as he was, bottom line Joe Frazier at the end of the day was just a prize fighter. He could not be anything more.

 

True, sometimes people have bigger dreams, pity is not a good thing, I would not want anyone to pity me, I think that it weakens a person. Like they say, you get lemons, you make lemonade. Life is full of choices.

 

Martin Luther King had a doctorate. Malcolm was self didactic but with an obviously high intellect. Muhammad was a disinterested student and likely dyslexic. His politics were all over the place. The one constant and I think what drew so many to him is he was unabashedly Black.