Was Buster Douglas Really Stronger Than Evander Holyfield?

Re Jumbo vs Frank, it was exactly that, Cummings ran out of gas.

That fight gave us the first indication of what was, imo, Bruno's biggest weakness, his complete lack of survival instinct when hurt. He was lucky that the big right hand Jumbo landed in the first was right on the bell, watching the extent to which Frank froze is still alarming today. Just after the 8-min mark below:

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Frank really showed a lot of heart here. You are so right. From the end of the 1st round until mid way through the 3rd round, Cummings is battering Frank from pillar to post. It looked like Bruno would be stopped. For Frank to weather the storm like that, and, win by knockout a few rounds later says a lot about him as a fighter. This is why I favor Bruno over his modern counterpart: Anthony Joshua. The punches Bruno took from Cummings were much harder (and more frequent) than the ones that caused Joshua to essentially quit against Ruiz.

 

Thanks Greg. You’re not wrong, very disturbing to see a fighter out on his feet like that - all but completely short circuited.

Huge heart Bert. Many might’ve lost their will and desire after that first round, and also in the several ensuing rounds when still vulnerable and copping even more punishment. Tough fight be Frank clearly came to win.

 

Great find, thank you.

 

George as a Strongman could have been interesting, had he taken up training after retiring from boxing the first time.
Given enough time to bulk up considerably, strengthen his tendons, increase his static strength, learn the techniques for the events and so on, I think he could have done fairly well in the early 80's.

 

That may technically be true. Foreman was an elite athlete. With 5-10 years of training in the relatively fringe and small 1980s strongman scene, he might have performed well.

That said, Foreman as he actually existed in the real world didn't work out for years with weights and steroids. Real-life Foreman didn't train to compete in strongman competitions. So the imaginary Foreman we are speculating about tells us little about how strong the real one was.

 

If that was even 20 seconds earlier Bruno's done imo.

Even an old shot Frazier took Cummings' shots better.

 

I’m the early 80s Bill Kazamier (spelling?) was competing Foreman would be a shrimp in the line up. “Bulk up” do you mean hop on juice? Because he’s not competing any other way.

 

But given 8 weeks! Did you not see how far he pushed George Chuvalo across the ring?

 

5 seconds earlier may have been enough, Swag. He'd have been a sitting duck.

Bruno was actually really difficult to KD. Iirc the only time he was off his feet was after a c.20-punch barrage vs James Smith.

He was probably as difficult to hurt as the next HW, too. His problem was that when he was hurt, he didn't drop to the floor, didn't cover up, didn't attempt to hold, didn't punch back, didn't move his feet or head, he just froze on the spot, like a statue, arms flopping by his side.

 

Well, Kaz was 6'3" and 320 lbs.
Geoff Capes was 6'6", not sure what he weighed. But a lot.
Jon-Pall was around 6'4" and around 300 lbs. (IIRC)
Those were the top guys from 1980 to about 1988.
Yes, George would have had to have juiced... that's a given.
But he was naturally athletic, naturally strong and given time and prep, he may just have developed into a good Strongman. Outside of the top-tier guys like the abovementioned, I think he would have done well.

 

But CT, Holyfield himself didn’t train or ingest PEDs to compete in conventional weight lifting competitions or strongman events.

In the real world - what are, if any, the official stats for Holyfield’s lifts? - it’s been asked before but none have been forthcoming. In that regard, Holyfield’s assumed strength resides in its own imaginary world.

When taking the strength of boxers, if there’s nothing else to rely on, we only have their demonstrated strength IN the ring - even IF it’s not the ideal gauge, it can be reasonably interpreted to a degree - just as Holyfield interpreted it when nominating Foreman as the strongest fighter he faced.

 

Kaz was listed at 320-3560, may have been 6'2", when 2 heights are listed, bet on the shorter one-at least barefoot.

 

He was caught buying testosterone and human growth hormone. Testosterone is, in fact, used to increase strength weightlifting and strongman competitions.

Obviously, we don't know what either man lifted. The most we can say about Holyfield is that the smaller early 90s version had a higher overhead press / jerk than Norton did.

I think you go too far here. We shouldn't ignore how each man trained.

Holyfield had a weight training regimen that has a lot of components designed to increase strength. It was designed by professionals to do that. He was also taking PEDs that increase strength. We should take those factors into account when we talk about how strong we think the guy was, IMO.