James J. Jeffries vs. Joe Frazier

Quite a ? over Jeffries power for mine - due to his relative size advantage over his more celebrated KO victims.

While he certainly hit him often and as hard as he could, Jeff couldn’t stop Sharkey over a total of 45 rounds but Bob Fitz was able to turn the trick twice over less than 10 rounds.

I don’t think Jeff hit hard enough to derail the likes of Frazier who would be on Jeff like glue from round 1, brutally pounding away without let up. Over 15, I feel that Jeff wouldn’t see the finish.

 

In agreement..
Joe s hooks turn Jeffries in to a swollen, wreck and he doesn't see 15.

 

Frazier doesn't lose to someone with a different last name than Ali or Foreman.
If I were to compare FOTC Frazier vs. pre-Ali champions, I would tip few champions to beat FOTC Frazier. And James J Jeffries is not among those champions.

 

I've seen this matchup come up every so often and I always respond the same. If you've seen Frazier v George Chuvalo, then you know how Frazier-Jeffries would end, IMO. I've always felt Jeffries was a more primitive version of Chuvalo.

 

I think the Jeffries(s) who did face T Sharkey couldn't -- or, likely couldn't -- KO him in 20/25 rounds (aside from that he didn't). But the Jeffries who first fought Sharkey went into the fights with bad hands (this is openly talked about in newspapers prior to the fight, Adam Pollack, 'In the Ring ... Jeffries'); the Jeffries who defended against Sharkey, after drubbing Sharkey pretty well in the first two rounds, reinjured his left elbow (injured in training when Roebler threw a medicine ball at Jeffries) -- this displacement would eventual (after the first Corbett defense) require the elbow hinging to be reset (one of the forearm bones was 1/4" out of place) and cast for 6 weeks (Adam Pollack, 'In the Ring ... Jeffries'). Jeffries once said (with all due admiration) than Tom never faced him (Jeffries) at his best, which I find plausible. So, though Jeffries didn't stop Sharkey in two tries, I don't think that shows that Jeffries, at his best, couldn't have done so.

 

Frazier beats him from pillar to post. Ref stops it to save Jeffries life.

 

Frazier was too fast and dynamic for Jeffries

 

Thanks G., you are right about those reports as referenced in Adam’s book. Not to dismiss those explanations but still, Jeff had 45 rounds in total, a lot of rounds to be explaining away.

I believe Jeff had Tom in a pretty bad way toward the end of both fights - accounts seem to suggest Jeffries was punching freely enough - but again, your points are valid and warrant highlighting. IIRC, there were X-rays taken of Jeff’s injury - please correct me if I’m wrong.

I can’t say that Bob had any nominated issues for the two Sharkey fights in question but Fitz had his own bad hands in general to contend with - and I think his own results vs Tom are still a fair indication that he was a far more effective puncher than Jeff despite Fitz being so much lighter. .

 

hate to be that guy but...


This is assuming Jefferies wouldn't duck him.

 

I agree that Fitzsimmons could either dish out horror beatdowns ('Nonpareil Demppsey, Dan Creedon, Gus Ruhlin), or drop a lightning bolt out of nowhere (Jim Hall, Maher 2, T Sharkey 2). Against upper level compeition (Peter Jackson an excused exception), Jeffries was more an attrition guy though, when moved, he could close out lower level guys quickly (Finnegan, Munroe) -- interestingly, in both cases mostly because he felt dissed by their managment.

It should also be said that Jeffries admitted that, in his pre-championship fights, he sometimes had hand issues because he did not yet have a perfected punching technique. It was something periodic and semi-characteristic in his early career, whereas the Roebbler incident was a chancier thing, with some culpable brain-fartage on Roebbler's part.

 

Great stuff. You know your boxing history - it’s a lot of fun talking the old timers.

 

Lol, in all reality, too true. Big Jeff might’ve said that such a fight wouldn’t draw flies.

On the other side of the coin, in defiance of the prejudice of the day, I reckon the turn of the century folk would’ve found Joe to be an irresistible crowd pleaser and perhaps put even more pressure (than they did on behalf of Johnson) on Jeff to face Smoking Joe.

 

Personally think that whether or not a black fighter got a shot at the title in that era was more dependent on the champion than the challenger. Joe would probably have had to wait until Burns got the title for his shot. But hey I don't have a time machine maybe things do play out differently.

 

Fair point - but I will say the pressure on Jeffries became quite acute - he never changed his answer but beneath the skin. I could only guess it was chipping away at him.

I personally feel the “elimination” match between Johnson and Hart (Hart the only one being eligible for a shot IF he won) was an absolute set up to remove Johnson from
the picture and release the building pressure that was mounting on Jeffries to face Lil Arthur.

Ironically, for all Jeffries superior size relative to his contemporaries , it took the smallest HW Champ, Burns, to finally give Johnson his shot. However you rate the little bugger, he certainly had guts.