Just finished Joe Frazier's autobiography

I know the feeling, have a far too big to be read pile of books too. I enjoyed Kram Jr's book. Informative and pretty balanced I thought in that it acknowledges Frazier's flaws too. Worth a read. His father wrote Ghosts of Manila which is a more direct 'corrective' of the Ali-Frazier rivalry.

 

if Ali would have just done the gorilla in Manila jingle one time and ended it with a bit of a smirk/grin and that was that, it probably would have been fine, he could have even had the little gorilla figurine and then gave it to some kid instead of carrying it around with him like a voodoo doll

ultimately it just shows that Ali was a sore loser, it had to have been at least in part due to Frazier beating him and his desire for vengeance

what would have happened if Ali harassed a fighter connected to the mob like that?...how would Ali have handled losing multiple fights such as if he went 0-2 with Frazier?

 

Thx I find Fraziers career very interesting so I don't mind getting more books but like u said the difficulty is getting to read them w the piles we have lol. Along w my Ali books as well.

 

I think that it was in terrible taste in general especially w how racists use gorillas n monkeys as derogatory terms against black ppl regardless of Ali being black himself. With that, he should've known better but some black ppl will degrade their own too. Then calling Frazier a "Tom" too was overboard too. I feel especially bad for Fraziers kids for the bullying they've endured bcuz of that feud n racial terms against their father.

 

Agree to disagree, fine with me.

 

I appreciate your singular interest but my therapist told me I need to work on staying apathetic, so that I don't have a nervous breakdown. Wife, therapist, whoever it was, it's not important. Boxing is important. And it requires total apathy.

 

Apathy can be good. Some say that apathetic traits actually represent a positive step forward in the evolutionary process. Survival of the not interested - and, to this day, we are still here, right? I think that makes the point - not that I care either way.

 

He gave Sonny a lot of insulting trash talk too.

It’s an odd thing with Ali how much people bring up his trash talk in this way. This is a sport where it’s OK to say you’re going to kill your opponent, or eat his children or make him your girlfriend, but somehow this is what crosses the line.

To me, Ali goaded certain opponents (Joe and Big George in particular) to make them see red and also to make himself motivated — he had to know that he was poking the bear (the big ugly one in Sonny Liston’s case) and that he did it to the degree that those very dangerous men were going to come out breathing fire and try to put some serious hurt on him, so he had to be ready to back it up.

And win (mostly) or lose (rarely), he did.

He came up with gorilla because he was always poetically inclined and it rhymed with Manila. He didn’t use that in his other fights with Joe … it was a colorful (no pun intended) way to hype the fight, and he no doubt came up with it thinking of something to rhyme with Manila. Pretty simple, really. I don’t think it was personal with Ali (although Frazier certainly made it so) as far as how he taunted him, more to me just showmanship and a way to sell it.

 

That bendy toy Gorilla Ali had, the small rubber one that he would hit in front of camera..well that summer every kid had one. Made in Hong Kong. It was a fad toy. We all had them. Maybe that is where that insult came from? Ali saw the toy. “This is me hitting Frazier” kind of thing?

 

I’m sure he used it as a prop because it fit, but he didn’t call it an ape or a ****** … he used gorilla because of the rhyming factor:

“It’s going to be a killa and a thrilla and a chilla when I get the grilla in Manila.”

Then he brings out the gorilla doll and says it’s Frazier’s conscience and he’s carrying it everywhere he goes. And then bops it with one hand while holding it in the other, saying: “Come on grilla, we in Manila.”

This content is protected

 

Exactly.Those toys were everywhere that year.