Why is Lennox Lewis considered a dominant champion?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by J.edwards_, Jul 15, 2023.


  1. J.edwards_

    J.edwards_ Member banned Full Member

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    Would you class Holmes as THE champ and not an alphabet champ in 78???
     
  2. Greg Price99

    Greg Price99 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Holmes. Ali gave up the lineal title when he retired post the Spinks rematch.

    By what measure does Tyson have a higher quantity of defences than Lewis?
     
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  3. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Now Deceased 2/4/25 Full Member

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    I would rank Larry Holmes as the champion. Spinks did not want any part of Norton, Larry beat Norton. Ali had retired after the second Spinks bout in Sept 1978. Negotiations for a title unification between eventual WBA titleholder John Tate vs WBC Champ Larry Holmes broke down in early 1980.
     
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  4. J.edwards_

    J.edwards_ Member banned Full Member

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    Perhaps. There are certainly some guys who can crack on his resume.

    I would rate Lewis’ resume much higher if he’d beaten the technically sound 80s technicians who can’t crack like Morrison/Tua but are better boxers. Spoon/Dokes/Tubbs etc I rate much higher than 90s contenders who don’t slip jabs or box well.

    Any 1 of Bowe/Holyfield/Tyson pre 1994 would’ve been big as well. I’m not convinced a wide then in the rematch, tight points decision of 99 Holyfield nor 2002 Tyson count for much in the grand scheme of things…
     
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  5. J.edwards_

    J.edwards_ Member banned Full Member

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    Late 90s/2000s new wave of contenders were trash. Big muscle bound guys who can crack a bit but can’t box or slip jabs.

    I think 38 year old Holmes would have narrowly beaten 36/37 year old Holyfield FWIW and Tyson should get a lot more mileage out of stopping Holmes early than 2 Lewis decisions with the second one being close.

    Spinks was good at heavy. I thought he beat Holmes twice. Real good boxing skills.

    Tyson beating Bruno comfortably was impressive because I had Bruno up a mile against Lewis a few years later.

    Tubbs and Tucker would’ve beaten old Holyfield Grant Rahman Botha 2002 Tyson etc.

    Biggs and Bonecrusher nothing to write home about and Thomas was declining m and Holyfield looked WAY better than Tyson soon after tbh.

    I thinks it’s clear Tyson beat better fighters in his title reign
     
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  6. Greg Price99

    Greg Price99 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    For the 2nd time, by what measure do you consider Tyson made more defences than Lewis?
     
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  7. Cecil

    Cecil Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Why didn’t you just title the OP “I hate Lennox Lewis”
     
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  8. jabber74

    jabber74 Active Member Full Member

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    Yes I agree. Lewis seems to have quite the fanbase acting like he was a dominant, "legendary" champion. I don't think he deserves that status... the way people talk about him sometimes...

    Also, yes, Lewis struggled with an over-the-hill Holyfield. It should not have even been a draw the first time. Lewis with his size advantage should have stopped him....

    I also felt that back in 1992 or 93, Bowe would have taken Lewis apart. Bowe was stupid and failed to capitalize on what might have been a key moment in his career. I guess we'll never know for sure....
     
  9. J.edwards_

    J.edwards_ Member banned Full Member

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    Simple. He defended his titles as THE MAN in the division more than Lewis.
     
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  10. jabber74

    jabber74 Active Member Full Member

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    I remember the night Lewis stopped Tyson, (this is post prison Tyson, far removed from the 1986 version of himself as this was 2002), after the fight they interview Lewis and Emanual Steward, and the announcer says something like "so, what does beating Mike Tyson now at the end of your career do for your legacy?", and him and Steward were acting like Lennox was undefeated and he was Joe Louis or something... and I'm thinking let's not get carried away!
     
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  11. MAD_PIGE0N

    MAD_PIGE0N ... banned Full Member

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    Why is Lewis considered a dominant champion - because people love to overhype. Especially fighters from the past - doing so gives them some high-level expertise.

    We can argue about the quality of Lennox's opposition, especially if we look at his top fights. We can't argue about his losses - "he avenged them" - yes, but 1:1 is 100% questionable is he the better and we talk about fighters that are by far not that great. Add he didn't give Vitali a rematch, but oh, yeah - "Lennox was old". He won via doctor's stoppage, but he was losing on every scorecard. True, this is a legit victory, but as legit as questionable. So Lennox was a very good fighter - true, but there is some gap in his greatness and mentioning that doesn't take anything from him. What matters is if some fans give him more than he deserves.
     
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  12. Oddone

    Oddone Bermane Stiverne's life coach. Full Member

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    This.
     
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  13. J.edwards_

    J.edwards_ Member banned Full Member

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    I tend to think Steward and the Lewis fanatics envision Lewis’ career ON PAPER rather than in reality and this is where they come up with nonsense like H2H goat etc.

    And I too have always been under the impression that Lewis had all the attributes to be great, but quite simply wasn’t.

    On paper he had a great jab with power and reach, in reality he was completely outjabbed by Mercer and Bruno and couldn’t help but paw with it and once he’s out his comfort zone cannot get a fight under control with it.

    On paper he’s 30lbs of big boy good looking muscle heavier than his opponents. In reality he was slow and had very suspect stamina which is why he nearly (some say did) got outhustled by an ancient Holyfield who jabbed him in the chest a few times and had him gasping! He’d have been a better fighter at 230lbs.

    On paper he’s a monstrous puncher. In reality he was terrified to let his hands go against an ancient Holyfield, a dead man in Tyson etc. Seriously if you watched the Lewis Holyfield fights you’d think Holyfield was the puncher ffs. Couldn’t dent a hapless fighter like Mavrovic and doesn’t carry his power late.

    On paper he dominated this great era of ATG heavyweights. In reality he was a distant fourth to Bowe/Holyfield/Tyson and started doing well when they lumped the primes out of each other/ aged/ self destructed.

    I was watching his fight with Lionel Butler the other day and Foreman had it spot on. He was saying that Lewis really looks the part and should be great but is an underachiever.

    Where myself and George disagree is that Lewis never ironed out the technical flaws of his early career and I don’t see it so black and white as pre and post Steward. For me he was never consistently impressive and those flaws he showed in his career give me reservations about how he competes against the better H2H fighters ie Ali/Tyson/Holmes/Bowe/Holyfield

    I don’t doubt that Lewis could starch Frazier with uppercuts or Foreman walking into his straight rights and gassing, but guys who have better stamina, better chins, better boxers, 15 rounds, more heart etc. A no from me.
     
  14. Greg Price99

    Greg Price99 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Your thread title asks why Lewis is seen as a dominant champion.

    Lewis has more cumulative and consecutive lineal title defences than Tyson.

    Lewis has more cumulative ABC strap defences than, and equal consecutive ABC strap title defences as, Tyson.

    By both lineal and ABC strap measures, he was champion for longer, both cumulatively and in a consecutive reign.

    That's why most people consider Lewis a more dominant champion than Tyson. It's the answer to the question you asked in the thread title. Other people aren't aware of, much less recognise, defences you interpret as being of their "THE MAN" status.

    Perhaps, given that you don't like demonstrable, quantifiable facts, cited in answer to the question you posed, a better thread title would have been "My interpretation of why Lewis wasn't a dominant champion".
     
  15. J.edwards_

    J.edwards_ Member banned Full Member

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    But guys who have been watching boxing for decades genuinely think he’s really good. It’s not just modern hype. It’s baffling. The eye test does not lie, Lewis is only impressive ON PAPER. Very different to what he did serve up.. There are guys saying Lewis deserves to rank above Holmes as an ATG and was better than him. Sorry, I do not see it at all. It’s embarrassing how hyped he is. People laugh about how overhyped Tyson is by the casual fan. Have they seen what people say about Lewis!!! Best heavyweight ever. Dominated the 90s!! Where does it come from. It’s pure rubbish.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2023