Bowe is better than Lewis ?

How can you not call it a win for Lewis ? Holyfield was a better version of himself in the 2nd fight compared to the 1st fight and still lost. So Lewis beat a better version of Holyfield in their 2nd fight so i don't understand that logic ?

What about Bowe's win over Holyfield in their 3rd fight ? Holyfield was suffering from Hepatitis which i've told you before because we've had this discussion before. So is that not really a win for Bowe either ?

 

I can't even put Bowe in the same class as Lewis, let alone consider ranking him higher. Bowe was only relevant for about 5 years and spent that time ducking Lewis, ducking anybody with a punch, and picking cadavers like Dokes as defenses. The dude had to repeatedly low blow the extremely limited, underpowered Pierre Coetzer to get a stoppage. Bowe made for entertaining bouts when matched correctly but there was certainly a note of safety first in his selection of opponents.

Meanwhile, Lewis was relevant for a dozen years and went right into the teeth of division's biggest punchers. Manny really rounded him out and got him to the style that best utilized his gifts. The result was one the greatest heavyweights to ever enter the ring.

 

What about the 217lbs Holyfield from Bowe Holyfield 2? What advantages did the 36/37 year old have here exactly?

This is laughable

 

The second fight Lewis had with Holyfield was a very close fight. I score a lot of fights basically draws, it’s a draw in my books. Lewis first fight with Holyfield is a straight up win, and a great win.

The third Bowe Holyfield fight Bowe landed a lot of hard body punches. Holyfield was showing a lot of energy and looking great till Bowe started landing hard body punches. Body punches can do that, I have had it happen to me, I know.

 

Well that's an opinion that would be in the minority though, most people have Lewis winning the fight in the region of 2 to 4 rounds. A competitive fight can still have a clear winner which most believe Lewis was. "Close enough to be a draw" doesn't really cut it for me Holyfield was better in the 2nd fight and performed well, but he didn't do enough and Lewis won the fight which makes it a very good win for Lewis end of. If were giving Bowe the same credit for beating a lackluster Holyfield with Hepatitis, then Lewis deserves the credit for beating a still good version of Holyfield in their rematch. Who was certainly better than the version of Holyfield in the 3rd Bowe fight.

Also here's fan's scorecards which shows your in the minority https://eyeonthering.com/boxing/unfinished-business-evander-holyfield-vs-lennox-lewis-ii

And here's my scorecard for reference.

Lennox Lewis vs Evander Holyfield 2

1 Holyfield
2 Lewis
3 Holyfield
4 Lewis
5 Lewis
6 Holyfield
7 Holyfield
8 Lewis
9 Lewis
10 Lewis
11 Lewis
12 Holyfield

115-113 Lewis

As for your final comment you keep bringing up about the body punches, i didn't see Bowe landing a whole lot of body punches as your claiming. Certainly no more than he did in other of his fights, what i see was a lackluster Holyfield fighting in spurts without his normal energy levels due to Hepatitis. Holyfield pretty much damn near knocked out Bowe in the 6th round, and couldn't follow it up because of his lack of energy.

 

Good point. Who won Bowe vs Holyfield 2?

 

I think you could quite easily score rounds 5 and 9 for Holyfield and then all of a sudden it’s a draw/ Holyfield win.

If Holyfield lost the fight it was on activity from age. The Holyfield of the first Bowe fights has no such issues and Lewis would’ve been outhustled, because once those body shots stacked up on Lewis he was gasping and fading bad.

The problem with criticising Bowe for beating a blown up cruiser is that Bowe looked a heck of a lot better beating a prime undefeated Holyfield in the fight of the decade than Lewis did barely edging out (I think Holyfield won the rematch) a completely washed Holyfield.

IMO Lewis fans claiming Bowe/Holyfield were overrated and Lewis was better is complete nonsense because… it just is. There is no argument to support it.

If prime Holyfield weren’t all that because Bowe beat him then why was prime Lewis very competitive on the cards with a washed 37 year old. Holyfield. He must have been a really good fighter, or neither Bowe/Lewis were.

Conversely if Holyfield was a really good fighter because he was very competitive with prime Lewis as a washed 37 year old, then that must make Bowe a really good fighter for beating a prime undefeated Holyfield.

I think you have to pick one or the logic does not follow.

I tend to think Lewis/Bowe/Holyfield were all the same level at heavyweight. If Bowe/Lewis were bigger and punched harder, Holyfield was a way more talented complete p4p fighter who could adjust much better than Bowe Lewis and that’s why he beat Bowe and was immsenly competitive with Lewis at 37 in the rematches.

 

FWIW, Bowe’s rematch performance against a ‘prime’ Holyfield with a rematch game plan was far stronger than Lewis’ in their rematch with the older slower Holyfield…

Bowe/Holyfield/Lewis were at the same level as heavyweights for me. They all were very talented fighters who beat some decent competition and all had consistency problems for a variety of reasons.

I think they are a set below the likes of Holmes/Tyson/Ali who also beat good competition but were more consistent with less weak performances.

 

Think what you like but that was what Rock Newman said. He wanted to try & get as much $$$$$ as he could before Bowe imploded. Eddie Futch said the same. Have you ever spoken to him? I have many years ago, a very nice man. Not at all like Newman

 

If you really seriously think Holyfield ever beat Lewis we do not need to discuss any it any further

 

That was a typo on my part sorry Both fights were offered at $8mil Floyd claimed he wasn't interested in belts just the money. Just watch those videos & you'll see how wrong you are. Ive never seen anyone look more terrified than Floyd did when he saw Antonio standing in front of him. He went absolutely Ape **** crazy he was hysterical. His goons had wandered off he was alone Afterwards when asked about it Floyd blurted out" Who is Margarito I have never heard of him I don't know who he is " ROFLMAO Pull the other one Floyd you were exposed for the coward & liar that you are.
Floyd was on his way out ??????? ROFLMAO The clown is still bombarding the internet sayin he is STILL the greatest ever ROFL. Canelo is copying him too what a pair of losers they are.

 

If you nit pick rounds you might find Lewis outlanded him slightly in more rounds than not, I would not know. But I call those rounds even. And basically it was more or less a even fight imo.

There is nothing wrong with that. One of my favourite fights I score a draw Morals vs Barrera 1. Morales was ruled the winner but that fight is close to a perfect draw and Morales is one of my favourite boxers. I also think Holyfield vs Bowe 1 and 2 fights were more or less draw fights. And technically I think there should be way more draws and even rounds. But most fans don’t want that.

 

Styles make fights. That many pages discussing the performances vs a single common opponent is ridiculous.
Why dont you spend as much time comparing their performances vs Tyrell Biggs?

Holyfield was an unbelievably inconsistent fighter.
He only really looked great in a handful of fights, very beatable and average in just as many.
There are versions of Holyfield that Tyson and lewis would have absolutely dominated. There are other versions that would have given any Heavyweight in history a run for their money.

Bowe looked great in one fight. One.
Good in some fights and very average in the rest against mostly lower level competition and walking corpses.
Tyson and Lewis looked like absolute world beaters for several fight runs against the best available competition.

People want to say Bowe was shot against Golota? Fine. How in the world are Ferguson Dokes Hide Donald and Gonzalez acceptable competition for the rest of his short prime?

His management must have known he wasnt all that. The fact that Herbie Hide is called upon when his fans are asked to name a puncher he fought says alot.

 

And you can easily score those rounds for Lewis aswell, and that's why the 3 judges had him winning clearly as did majority of people who watched it.

Holyfield fought a bad gameplan in the 1st fight by trading punches inside with a much bigger man.

No one is criticizing Bowe for beating Holyfield the 1st time, the other poster said he didn't give much credit for Lewis beating Holyfield the 2nd time. Which to me makes no sense as Holyfield fought a better fight, and Lewis still clearly won although in a more competitive fight. And i would say the Holyfield in the 2nd Lewis fight was atleast better than the Holyfield in 3rd Bowe fight, yet he gives Bowe credit for beating a lackluster Holyfield who had Hepatitis which to me is it a bit biased.

As for Bowe looking better against Holyfield ? well both fighters won their 1st fight vs Holyfield very clearly, although i would say Lewis arguably won wider vs Holyfield with less of a struggle. But Bowe then lost a rematch vs Holyfield where as Lewis won his rematch vs Holyfield. And then the 3rd fight Bowe was almost knocked out by a lackluster Holyfield who had Hepatitis so it depends how you see it.

No one has claimed Holyfield is overrated ? but i think Bowe is overrated yes. His whole career is based on Holyfield fights and he has no other notable wins. Lewis on the other hand took far more risks and fought and much more wider arrange of styles which to me clearly shows he's greater.

Bowe had leaky defense and liked to fight on the inside too much for a bigger man, how would he fair against more dangerous punchers ? Holyfield was a perfect style match up for him because at that time Holyfield liked to engaged in wars he was much smaller man, and didn't have concussive power at Heavyweight.

 

It's funny when people say Bowe was completely shot vs Golota no one at the time was saying that. Wasn't Bowe considered the number 1 Heavyweight at that time ? and Golota was seen as a cherry pick ? Bowe in his own words when describing Golota "Why do i have to train so hard to fight a bum"

Could it be the fact that Golota was actually a skilled big man ? who Bowe could not deal with ? Golota completely neutralized Bowe with the jab. And out fought him on the inside by turning away from the uppercut and landing combinations at will.

Now i'm not saying Bowe was at his absolute peak vs Golota because obviously he wasn't, but i don't think enough credit is given to Golota. And really Bowe never showed in his entire career that he could beat a big skilled Heavyweight.