Was Foreman really weight drained in his first career and if so, how much and why?

I think a comfortable set point for Foreman would have been the 235 that he was against Qawi. That's probably his natural fit weight -- I don't think he's someone able to stay lean without a ton of effort, and for a HW, why bother, assuming it isn't causing an issue with stamina.

 

Considering that he showed the same crappy stamina at 230 against Young and 220 against Ali, there’s solid evidence that his weight never really was responsible for any poor performances in the 70s.

 

I've read that Foreman literally dehydrated before weigh ins during the 70's, but don't know if its true and agree it is crazy if so.

As a more general observation, I do think the issue of natural size/weight in the modern era compared to the 70's and before, is more nuanced than many appreciate.

At HW in the 70's and before, fighters typically still trained and dieted to keep their weight relatively low. Their counterparts today aim to maximise their functional mass. Chageav, Povetkin and even Parker, all typically weighed more than 70's Foreman, yet if all 4 had identical diets, supplements and training, 70's Foreman would have surely been the heaviest.

Below HW, yes, fighters typically dehydrate to make weight, in some cases to the extreme. But, even below HW, today's fighters typically carry more muscle mass than pre-70's fighters. One might consider that Canelo today likely weighs over 180lbs on fight night and conclude he would have been a HW in the pre-CW era, or at least a big LHW. However, he's added a substantial amount of manufactured muscle mass that he would not carry, had he competed in the 70's or before. With his frame and natural build, he'd have likely been a MW had he competed pre-70's.

 

Going by Ken Norton's comments during Thrilla in Manilla, it seems it was pretty common fro HWs back then to drain a few pounds of water weight before going in to the ring, since he reckons that both Ali and Frazier have. So it doesn't seem to have been something unique to Foreman. It shouldn't have effected his weight at the weigh-ins much, since most of the drain should have been done before stepping into the ring.

 

"Obviously idiotic"?
Since forever, hw fighters have shed weight to find the point at which they are optimally efficient. James Jeffries did it, Deontay Wilder does it, so did Marciano and Louis and Ali. Fighters trained by Futch and Goldman and Blackburn...
The problem George had with stamina were twofold. First, he was very much a top down puncher and he had big heavy arms that were heavy to swing. Second, he fought very tense, which is to be expected because- through his whole career up to Ali- he boxed very few rounds. He was fed a steady diet of guys that he bombed out easily. In his training they focused on making him stronger and emphasizing his "destroyer" image and very little on getting him rounds and going deep in a fight.

 

Where's the evidence for these guys maximizing their mass? Povetkin is the same height as Chisora and Ibeabuchi for example but typically fought in the 220s and never tried bulking to 240 plus like they did effectively.

Same with Ivan Dychko. The guy is over 6'7 but fights in the 230s. Why didn't he bulk up like Fury?

 

Well for starters the evidence that he did typically weigh more than Parker when fought in the 90's and averaged c.255lbs.

As for evidence of fighters today maximising their mass relative to their counterparts from the 70's and before, check out the average weights of HWs from the respective eras. I assume you don't think that people on average have got c.30-40lbs heavier during the past 50-years, so what other explanation is there?

 

The height difference for one. There are plenty of top heavyweights in the 6'5, 6'6, 6'7 range whereas in the 1970s you didn't have guys that height in the top 10.
Foreman was carrying a lot of flab in the 1990s so it wouldn't represent his weight at a low body fat percentage.

Some of these guys are simply out of shape so if we have hypothetical in shape versions that would decrease the weight difference.

 

I concede Foreman at 255lbs likely had a higher body fat % than Parker at 240lbs. Its harder to add muscle mass in your 40's though, if Foreman's diet, supplements and training from the 90's had been the same during his late 20's, he'd have carried more muscle mass and had a lower body fat percentage, and likely still weighed more than Parker typically did. I concede there's not much in it though.

Ok, fair point, world class HWs are taller on average today, too. HWs are heavier today relative to their height, on average, than the 70's and before, though. I attribute that changes in diet, supplements, PEDs and training techniques, rather than natural human physiological evolution.

 

I don't think so. Because in the 1970's and earlier fighters did not enter bouts looking like The Sta Puff Man, it looked terrible to let your torso look like that, muscle definition was something that most fighters desired to have, more attractive to the female fans. I think that George Foreman in the 1970's did not like to train, especially after he dispatched Joe Frazier for the title in 2 brutal rounds. George lived off of his press clippings, looking to emulate his boyhood idol Sonny Liston.

 

229 vs, Young, but you must know he saw God due to severe dehydration right?
Nothing in that fight should have given him that condition, he was saving energy due to more bad stylistic advice-Young later said Foreman could have "knocked me over with a feather" at one point.

So he clearly was dehydrated coming into the match.
It is an extreme statement to say a HW being dehydrated never contributed to weakening him.

You do realize that apropod of Foreman, you are about as objective as the Mother of a serial killer's victim right?

 

I think if Foreman was in the same sort of physical shape as Ali and Louis in terms of body fat percentage he would weigh probably no more than 220 maybe a bit less. He doesn't seem much bigger in many measurements than Ali and Ali was as light as 206 in his prime.

A lot of his listed weights don't seem unusual for a guy with his dimensions who is lean and in shape.

 

Parker is also an inch taller than Foreman, that given their bulk = 6 lbs. right there.
Some fighters even at HW trained down historically, but it made more sense with longer fights & less behemoths.
Anyway Foreman's training down seems more due to dehydrating before a fight.
Modern fighters due this all the time-but they scien-terrifically put it all back on!
Foreman was not just cutting fat like say Rocky.
If he did had plenty of fluids & electolytes in his system in the daaaze before San Juan, I do not think he would have been hallucinating after the fight-or lost it, despite errant advice on his boxing stance & holding back.

But I think people HAVE gotten over 30 lbs. heavier in the last 50 or so years!
Look at the stats for Americans-average man almost exactly 200 lvs., average woman almost precisely 171.
Even fatter for their lean body mass-I attribute it to estrogenic effects hitting females harder, maybe more dieting that screws with metabolism. Google "Ultra-Processed People"-fake food makes us crave more & minimizes satiation/bypasses natural systems & limits-all in the name of profit.

Then look at what we weighed in the 1960's!