Marvis Frazier vs Old George Foreman

Pity it’s all Marvis is remembered for. He was decent.

 

He was as i said earlier i watched his fight vs Bonecrusher earlier this year, i was impressed how he survived early onslaught from Bonecrusher and a heavy knockdown late.

A few of his rare fights have surfaced on YT this year i'll get round to watching them all eventually.

 

What relevance does that statement have?

 

Big George has a talk with Poppa Joe before the fight. " Do you really want the same thing to happen to your son?" George asks. Joe thinks wisely and cancels the fight.

 

This is Foreman we're talking about not feather fisted Joe Bugner.

 

Foreman ko's him in a few rounds.

 

Could be a literal decapitation.

 

The Bonecrusher Smith fight was Marvis' best performance and victory. He outworked a bigger,stronger and heavier hitting guy and survived his best shots. George Foreman was a totally different proposition however even in his veteran incarnation. He hit as hard as Smith plus he had better boxing skills. George catches Frazier by the seventh or eighth and stops him.

 

Those skills didn't help much with Stewart and Morrison, who were less skilled than Marvis.

 

Really fascinating matchup. The prefight would've been cool.

People who say Marvis Frazier couldn't fight are flat out wrong. Marvis was the number-one US Amateur heavyweight. He went 56-2. He beat Tony Tubbs, Tim Witherspoon, David Bey, Mitch 'Blood' Green as amateurs and Bonecrusher Smith, Jose Ribalta, 'Quick' Tillis, James Broad and Joe Bugner as a pro. He was National Golden Gloves champion. National AAU champion. He fought in Dual Meets and international competitions against fighters from Eastern Europe and the USSR, and he always won.

He just lost to Mike Tyson and Larry Holmes early. There was no crime in that. Tyson and Holmes were in great shape for those fights and focused. They didn't look past Marvis. Frankly, Tony Tubbs didn't do a whole lot better against Tyson. Some guys like Greg Page lost to Bugner.

As for Foreman, though, I'd probably give Marvis a "better" chance if he was fighting George around the time George fought Alex Stewart and Tommy Morrison. Foreman in 1988 was early in his comeback, but he was still in his 30s and much fitter that year. Like nearly 20 pounds lighter than he was against Stewart. George looked almost thin against Qawi that year.

I don't think it ends in one, but it doesn't lost too long. The psychological aspect of a matchup like that would've weighed heavy on Marvis (and Joe). And George would've uppercutted him to death, like he did his dad.

I'd say Foreman inside three rounds, five tops. It would've been crazy, though. Does Joe enter the ring to save him? Does Joe get into it with George?

 

If George were really better in the late 80s than early 90s, why did waste so much time fighting no hopers?

He hadn’t even been in a gym in close to a decade. He probably peaked for Holyfield/Stewart/Coetzer.

 

Another thing to factor into is would Marvis be intimidated by Big George ? Especially because he destroyed his dad.

 

Old George via annihilation.

 

I started watching Foreman's comeback live in late 1987 and early 1988 (when he was 38/39) after his fights started showing up on ESPN. He fights really well in those early ESPN bouts with Sekorski, Trane and Qawi. And he'd been in the gym for nearly two years by that point. Being a former athlete and former world champ, it's not like he was new at this. He was never a fancy boxer. He was a puncher. And age hadn't really affected his speed or movement as of yet. (He was basically as old as Wilder will be this fall.)

Foreman said early on he wanted to go on a "barnstorming tour" mainly off-TV to get used to being hit and get the feel for the ring again. He did it the right way. Also, it's not like Foreman wasn't trying to get a title fight earlier. He was calling out Mike Tyson as early as 1988. Tyson just had his own issues to deal with from 1988-1990. He wasn't looking for a fight with Foreman. He was trying to unify, then get his managerial situation sorted in court, went thru a divorce, had mandatories ... then got upset.

But the George Foreman who fought Qawi beats up the Foreman who fought Alex Stewart or Morrison, there's no doubt in my mind. Foreman at 38/39 was better than George at 43/44.

To me, Foreman peaked in his comeback when he knocked out Cooney and Adilson Rodriques in 1990 at age 41. He was very strong physically and mentally, his hands were still fast and he was very accurate. He was one of the best heavyweights on the planet at the time, regardless of age.

After the Holyfield fight, which he performed great in, he really dropped off. That fight was the whole reason for his comeback and he came up short. He'd built up to that. Once that was over, it was just about picking up some money here and picking up a good paycheck there.

The version of Foreman who fought Stewart and Morrison, mentally, was kind of lost. (And he did lose to Morrison and it seemed like he lost to Stewart, too.) He was pretty much aimless at that point. I think Marvis might actually survive and maybe throw enough punches to win against THAT version of Foreman.

By the time he fought Morrison, he was all but done. He just managed to win one round against Moorer, and that round was good enough to take the title.

In 1988, Foreman was pretty fast, pretty light (for him) and moved well. And the uppercuts were there all day. Marvis wouldn't have been able to handle them. He was a sucker for uppercuts.

 

It’s so much easier to look good against bad competition though. Even Qawi at heavyweight wasn’t good. When he stepped up to fighting Holyfield and top 20 guys, he simply looked worse.

Wilder wouldn’t have his form if he dropped off the map for a decade and packed on some pounds.