Did Luis Ortiz Retire?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Charles White, Jul 18, 2023.


  1. It's Ovah

    It's Ovah I am very feel me good. Full Member

    14,882
    19,143
    Sep 5, 2016
    Keep the narrative spinning. One day it may take off.
     
    kriszhao likes this.
  2. Finkel

    Finkel Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,022
    4,792
    Feb 10, 2020
  3. Redbeard7

    Redbeard7 Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,331
    2,362
    Oct 9, 2022
    Weak response from a hypocrite who was high on Ortiz before Wilder beat him.

    Why did Povetkin's promoter (for instance) claim that they avoided Ortiz?
     
  4. Redbeard7

    Redbeard7 Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,331
    2,362
    Oct 9, 2022
    "If a fight doesn't happen, it must be Ortiz ducking the 15/1 underdog who quit on a Pulev jab".

    And let's just ignore the multitude of quotes from Povetkin's promoter, Joyce's ex-trainer, Chisora and the rest saying that they wanted no part of Ortiz.
     
  5. Finkel

    Finkel Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,022
    4,792
    Feb 10, 2020
    Have you replied to the wrong person, here? As I don't have a clue who that quote is from.

    However, about Ustinov. Ortiz was ordered to make the fight as part of the WBA's elimination tournament. Ustinov's team won the purse bid, and Ortiz refused to sign. Ortiz's team the loser of the purse bid's excuse was that Ustinov wouldn't sign up to VADA. Only, the WBA is not the WBC; Ustinov just saw Povetkin his countryman be screwed over by VADA; Ortiz is not a clean athelete; Ortiz as the loser of a purse bid does not get to dictate terms to his opponent. In summary, Ortiz ducked Ustinov.

    BTW, I do agree that Ortiz was swerved by certain fighters, but Ortiz also did some ducking of this own. I realise Doublechin wrote a eulogy for the guy, but as far as I know, he isn't actually dead. So, we don't have to brush all the negatives under the rug. Ustinov (WBA elimination tournament), Hrgovic (IBF elimination tournament), Joshua (MSG fight) - are three actual fights, not speculative fights, that Ortiz could/should have taken but always had a lame excuse for why things weren't his fault.
     
    Manning, Brighton bomber and Mickea4 like this.
  6. Mickea4

    Mickea4 Active Member Full Member

    732
    1,034
    Aug 22, 2018
    I thought this was a joke post and was gonna counter with a nifty "mate, Luis Ortiz has a win over HENRY Cooper" , but nope, he actually does have a win over Bert Cooper wtf !
     
    Finkel and Pepsi Dioxide like this.
  7. Pepsi Dioxide

    Pepsi Dioxide Boxing Junkie Full Member

    8,894
    11,783
    Oct 22, 2020
    Its a weird name to have on his ledger for sure!
     
    Mickea4 likes this.
  8. Jacques81

    Jacques81 Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,733
    4,158
    Oct 13, 2016
    Now that his Medicare has kicked in he can definitely retire. Social security too at 65
     
    box33 and Pepsi Dioxide like this.
  9. box33

    box33 Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,957
    3,442
    Jul 25, 2021

    Medicare hahaha
     
    Jacques81 likes this.
  10. Cojimar 1946

    Cojimar 1946 Well-Known Member Full Member

    2,783
    1,738
    Nov 23, 2014
    Luis Ortiz heavyweight career wasn't much better than that of Juan Carlos Gomez really. In the ratings for years but practically no wins of substance
     
  11. Redbeard7

    Redbeard7 Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,331
    2,362
    Oct 9, 2022
    No, I replied to the correct person.

    The quote is from Povetkin's promoter, quoted by Russian media. One of many who admitted that they didn't want to fight Ortiz. Maybe Povetkin's promoter was lying to make Povetkin look bad or something, maybe that will be the theory if someone wants to contend with the quote.

    "BTW, I do agree that Ortiz was swerved by certain fighters,"

    That's fascinating. Which "certain fighters" do you think swerved Ortiz?

    I don't know what the behind the scenes negotiations were like with the Ustinov fight. You've got your interpretation of those events, cool.

    But I do know that Ustinov was a 15/1 underdog who had previously quit on a Pulev jab. I know that Povetkin's promoter, Joyce's ex-trainer, Chisora etc. said that they wanted no part of Ortiz. I also know that an older Ortiz stepped in twice as a wide underdog with a fearsome puncher in Wilder and chased Joshua-conqueror Ruiz to fight him at 43, as a clear underdog. And his heart wasn't questioned by anyone in those fights or any others. So I highly doubt that Ortiz was afraid to fight a relative nonentity like Ustinov.

    43 year old Ortiz fought former titlist Ruiz for more money and potentially prestige over unknown prospect Hrgovic. How is that ducking?

    Ortiz fought Wilder in 2019 at the end of the year, probably a fight he'd been promised by PBC provided he didn't take the Joshua fight. I also don't regard taking a title fight with a fearsome puncher who has already KO'd you as ducking another titlist who has only given you a few weeks notice.
     
  12. Finkel

    Finkel Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,022
    4,792
    Feb 10, 2020
    Alexander Ustinov wins purse bid in proposed bout with Luis Ortiz - The Ring (ringtv.com)
    Luis Ortiz Fails To Sign Contract By Deadline, Ustinov Fight in Limbo - Boxing News (*******.com)
    Luis Ortiz's Manager: We Signed, Ustinov Refused VADA Testing! - Boxing News (*******.com)
    How would you interpret those events?

    I'm confident that Joyce swerved Ortiz. Joyce called him out. Ortiz accepted. And Joyce's team said slow down.

    edit: sorry I only scanned your last part there as I was heading out the door. So in response to your question:

    He fought in an IBF eliminator against Charles Martin. The winner was expected to face Hrgovic. So instead of taking a final eliminator he enters another tournament with the WBC to fight Ruiz which put him further away from a title shot. Now personally, I think that is pretty shady because not only did that take the opportunity away from other boxers on the ladder, but they also made Martin v Ortiz a PPV based on it being an IBF eliminator. But I understand your position that fighting Ruiz Jr. is for more money and prestige. But then in the next paragraph you are explaining why it was okay for him not to fight Joshua, which was for more money and more prestige than a rematch with Wilder.

    This is kind of what I meant with Ortiz and it never being his fault.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2023
  13. Redbeard7

    Redbeard7 Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,331
    2,362
    Oct 9, 2022
    "How would you interpret those events?"

    That they weren't especially interested in fighting Ustinov. I can't get into the minds of Ortiz or his team, why they thought that Ustinov wasn't the best option at that moment. But it's exceedingly unlikely to me that Ortiz or his team were scared to fight a man who was a 15/1 underdog, who'd already got shut out by Pulev and quit on a jab and who'd soon lose to Charr, especially when Ortiz would fight Wilder x2 and Ruiz at 43, as a B-side and clear underdog every time and never exhibit a lack of courage.

    "with the WBC to fight Ruiz which put him further away from a title shot"

    Had Ortiz beaten Ruiz (which was regarded as a more winnable fight stylistically, as well as more lucrative and prestigious) Ortiz would have probably got a lucrative and prestiguous 3rd fight with stablemate Wilder. Had he beaten Hrgovic he may well be fighting someone like McKean right now, waiting patiently for his shot at Usyk, with time firmly against him at 44.

    If Ortiz had fought a Derric Rossy or whoever then I could understand the criticism that he ducked Hrgovic (like pretty much everyone else in the top 10 of the IBF rankings did). But fighting Ruiz was also dangerous and made more sense from several angles.

    "But then in the next paragraph you are explaining why it was okay for him not to fight Joshua"

    Again, he wasn't fighting Derric Rossy instead of Joshua; he was fighting the equally dangerous titlist Wilder. Less money and prestige but more than a few weeks notice and a chance to avenge his defeat.

    "This is kind of what I meant with Ortiz and it never being his fault."

    He turned pro too late, though being born in Cuba had a lot to do with that. Five of his best years were wasted fighting 21 filler opponents between Page and Jennings, though as an unknown Cuban who couldn't speak English, he didn't have the powerful backers behind him that other top fighters did. He should have been more resolute in pursuing the Joshua fight in 2017 and unless he was injured, he should have taken the Joshua fight in 2019 on short notice rather than rematch Wilder, leaving PBC if need be. He failed two drug tests, though how much of that is political? It didn't keep him out for long in any case.

    Ortiz and his team made some bad decisions in retrospect but a lot of it was out of his control or made sense at the time. I'm sure he would have wanted a title shot sooner than him being officially on the cusp of his 39th birthday and with more accommodating boxing politics I have no doubt it would have happened sooner. He also probably didn't like being a B-side vs Wilder and Ruiz and perhaps that cost him too but he had to deal with it. It was a combination of age, being avoided, boxing politics, bad decision-making and not being quite good enough that cost him.

    "I'm confident that Joyce swerved Ortiz."

    Indeed. His ex-coach admitted it:

    This content is protected


    So did Povetkin's promoter in 2014. Takam pulled out of the Ortiz fight to fight Duhaupas, which also didn't happen. Chisora has said consistently throughout the years that he has no interest in fighting Ortiz because "he's a hard night at the office" - 2023. When the likes of Povetkin and Takam and Chisora aren't fighting you for risk-reward reasons (and that's no doubt the tip of the iceberg), you're a heavily avoided fighter.
     
    Finkel likes this.