Why did Ken Norton's jab trouble Ali so much but Liston's didn't?

Nice post. Liston had slipped quite a bit prior to fighting Ali. he has developed bursitis badly in both of his shoulders. (this was latter confirmed in his autopsy).

"It has been reported that Sonny
Liston had been suffering from bursitis in his shoulders for close to a year and had been receiving
cortisone shots. In training for the Clay fight, he re-injured his left shoulder and was supposedly in
pain striking the heavy bag. He secretly resorted to heavy icing and ultrasound therapy after each
training session. Immediately after the fight, Liston told broadcasters that he hurt the shoulder in the
first round. Dr. Alexander Robbins, chief physician for the Miami Beach Boxing Commission,
diagnosed Liston with a torn tendon in his left shoulder. During the night, a team of eight doctors
inspected Liston’s arm at St. Francis Hospital in Miami Beach and agreed that it was too badly
damaged for Liston to continue fighting. The torn tendon had bled down into the mass of the biceps,
swelling and numbing the arm. Those findings were confirmed in a formal investigation immediately
after the fight by Florida State Attorney Richard Gerstein, who also noted that there was little doubt
that Liston went into the fight with a sore or lame shoulder."

 

Top post yourself Champ.

It’s interesting how subjectivity still comes into the interpretation of objective facts.

Because it’s Liston, there are those who dismiss such solid evidence - but if that same evidence was produced in defence of a fighter they’re more fond of…they will take it on board, treating and factoring it more seriously.

Look at Lewiston Maine. A hot mess, all parties involved contributing to the chaos.

However, when the smoke cleared, it was only Liston’s name and rep. that was permanently blackened…the convenient “fall guy”.

 

Maybe because for whatever reasons (age, shoulder hurt, lack of motivation, fill blank space here) Liston was not in the game anymore?

 

Floyd must have been so fast that night that even the camera didn't see his work!!! As what most of us saw was a pedestrian performance by a man with a severe back injury who was carried most of the fight by a champ who could do as he pleased.

 

thpinal Patterson is still faster than the massively overrated Norton

 

The "objective facts" go in different directions, though. Liston's camp was giving different versions of whether Liston had the injury through camp or whether it happened in he fight and one of his cornerman later said the whole thing was made up on the spot when Liston up and quit.

So there has never been one consistent story about this.

 

After the fight, I think Liston's injury was confirmed as a badly torn left bicep by a Boxing Commission physician. I'd had to refresh myself to tune up the finer details.

 

It was confirmed by doctors, don't know if they were with a boxing commission, though.

 

Yes, I checked myself and it was confirmed by a Boxing Commission doctor. Being even handed, you might like this article which analyses the vision for any evidence of said injury. Their conclusion is that there was no visual evidence of such an injury. Obviously, an actual and legitimate examination is more reliable but it's an interesting read, nonetheless.

https://osf.io/9c4g3/download/

 

Legitimate being the key word here.

 

Yeah, that’s why included the term “legitimate” knowing that the next port of call would be to question the credibility of the examination.

But, we do have a Commission doctor’s examination and diagnosis - and why would he necessarily fall in with a scam or be suspected of same?

 

Your explanation is more detailed than what I was going to post: timing.

Norton had a perfectly timed jab for Ali. Sonny did not.

Against Ali, Sonny was like a slow-motion film while Ali was on fast-forward. The speed difference was astounding.

 

Did he do a separate examination? Didn't he just accept the one done by the first team?

According to Boxrec the commission just accepted the initial doctors' report:

After the doctors' report, the commission was satisfied that there was no wrong doing and allowed Liston to collect his purse.

https://boxrec.com/wiki/index.php/Sonny_Liston_vs._Cassius_Clay_(1st_meeting)

 

Sounds like Tyson's broken back that, "thpinal"!

 

Patterson's jab against Ali was a thpinal tap.