Assessing Larry Holmes's all time heavyweight standing

I think it can be weighed a bit, but in the other direction. He aged far better than most fighters -- imagine a 43 year old Marciano, Frazier, or Louis going up against a prime Holyfield?

 

Frazier had a permanently crooked arm, legally blind in an eye, lifelong diabetes and was the only person to beat Ali anywhere near his prime

Marciano fought Charles and Walcott twice

Louis fought a more prime Walcott twice and Charles was one of his three losses

they all fought some second rate guys, but Holmes never fought anyone near the level of 71 Ali, prime Walcott, or Charles, even Cooney could be considered second rate compared to those guys, and there were some more top tier guys Holmes could have tried but he didn't

Holmes would never fight someone that whooped him the first time like Foreman whooped Frazier, guys like Louis, Marciano, and Frazier, even Holyfield would fight anyone, and Holyfield did so into pretty old age

 

One of the worst shouts of all time, rating Bowe ahead of Lewis due to a win that didn't happen as an amateur.

Not sure how not getting deducted a point makes Bowe's chin more able to take Lewis's big shots in round 2 either.

 

That was the craziest thing I saw on this forum. Putting mileage in a performance at amateur…. In a losing effort at that!

 

Lewis is overrated and Bowe had way better fights with Holyfield

 

One of the top 5 easily.

 

Where do you have Marciano?

 

I think I would put him below Holyfield and Frazier and then maybe above Patterson, so 13. However not with any confidence. I find Marciano and Patterson both extremely difficult to rate properly, maybe more so than the mythical old timers like Corbett and Fitzsimmons who I have not even tried to rate really as I feel H2H (despite their achievements) they almost certainly lose to anyone else in my top 15 or so.

Rocky is such an icon and with the 49-0 legend but against that he is clearly extremely vulnerable H2H to the bigger faster guys on my list. Marciano was underrated as far as making the most of his limitations and turning them into an advantage. I think a lot depends on if you feel his huge heart and stamina outweigh his weaknesses and how much these factors count in your rating.

Patterson is clearly a terrific fighter but he just seems too vulnerable to make the top ten.

These ratings are going by my combining career stats along with how I think fighters will do H2H. However if you go purely by record then of course my top 10 would look a bit different and I would have to include Rocky.

 

Bizarre to say the least.

 

I too am in the minority who think Bowe was better than Lewis. Simply more going for him as a fighter. Lewis lacked X-factor and doesn’t convince me the way he does others.

 

Larry Holmes = 19 title defenses. Second only to the great Joe Louis.

'Nuff said.

 

Rated 5th for me for his consistency, title defences. Had he unified and beat the likes of Thomas, Coetzee, Dokes. And beat Michael Spinks for the 49-0 he may of overtook Louis for me.

 

"even" ? When it comes to fearlessness, willingness to fight anyone, and warrior heart/spirit, Holyfield is up there with any fighter who ever laced 'em up. I believe he was the last HW with this mindset, unfortunately.

 

Also, how about how their pro careers turned out? Bowe was unable to stay fit, unable to stay focused mentally, and was generally a basket case -- Lewis had NONE of these problems in his career.

Bowe had a ton of potential but didn't live up to it. Crazy unfair to rate him ahead of a champ who lived up to his potential, beat every man he faced, and in his last fight, taken on short notice, stopped the next generation.

 

The ATG list in my book goes like this:
1. Ali
2. Louis
3. Holmes
4. Lewis
.
.
.
IMO in time Lewis will take the No.3 spot. Only Holmes of these 4 names was never the undisputed champion (on the other hand, only Louis defended the title more times than Holmes).