Putting Crawford's Domination & Stoppage of Errol Spence Jr. Into Its Proper Perspective.

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by CST80, Jul 30, 2023.


  1. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

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    Alright, since I've been saying that Crawford would dominate and stop Spence for quite some time, it should stand to reason that I'd want to jump up and down shouting it from the rooftops and gloating mercilessly over all of these misguided people who bought the hype and got this one so terribly wrong. But I won't, because the truth is.... I've never seen this as even a remotely competitive match up, and it's one the easier predictions I've made on here. No version of Spence ever had a chance. Which yes, that means I do not rate this victory all that highly in the P4P sense. Nor did I find the performance incredibly impressive, it went exactly how I thought it would. Now obviously Crawford is an incredible talent and mean as a rattlesnake, so this isn't necessarily to denigrate his win, but to breakdown why it happened and explain how so many people allowed themselves to be so utterly bamboozled into incorrectly thinking Spence would give him hell and be by far the toughest fight of his career, or that Spence is some next level P4P talent to begin with. When the reality is, Porter, Kavaliauskas, Postol, Dulorme, Benavidez, Gamboa, hell even Horn presented him with more of a riddle.

    Yes Spence is talented, but by no means has he ever possessed anything even close to resembling an elite skill set. His entire career has been a carefully constructed smoke and mirrors like facade, slyly perpetrated on the fans by the micromanaging con artists at PBC. As @Serge and myself have both pointed out on seemingly endless number of occasions. Spence was rocked early in his career by featherfisted southpaw Emmanuel Lartey, then add to that the stories that he'd been KO'd in sparring by Floyd Mayweather. That led to him facing a virtual cavalcade of not only light punchers, but truly pitiful Malignaggi level non-punchers. The likes of Lo Greco with a 46% KO ratio, Barrera 48%, Peterson 40%, Van Heerden 44%,Vargas 37% and both Algieri and Bundu have paltry 31% and 32%. It almost seems like PBC were well aware of this potential liability and did everything in their power to protect their asset from being exposed before stepping up to world level. This was a much needed move, considering Spence tends to be a front foot heavy fighter, which puts him in harm's for a brutal KO far more than the average fighter.

    Of course, when he made the step up in class, the fighters will invariably get better and their power and durability will improve. But even then, they were extremely cautious as to whom they matched him against, and only took risks when they were absolutely necessary. The first one being Brook, who has a respectable 65% KO ratio. Although he'd been struggling to make the weight for some time, immediately moved up to 154 afterward, and was coming back down after GGG broke his face at 160. So he was a badly compromised gamble well worth taking. Then there's the fearsome puncher Mikey Garcia, with a 71% KO ratio, at 135 and below. Who was drug up not one, but two divisions. This was his GGG-Brook move and it paid off marvellously to the awe of the casual fans anyway. Then there's Porter with his 47% KO ratio, but when you look a little closer, you realize the man has had 3 KO's in his last 17 matches, which is just sad. Ocampo sits at 60% but whose scored no KO's against notable competition. Danny Garcia in theory is a monster puncher.... at 140. But a closer look, his KO ratio is a mere 52% and in his 10 matches at Welterweight, he's scored 4 KO's. Then there's poor pitiful Yordenis Ugas, with his embarrassing 37% KO ratio. All of this is orchestrated to allow Spence to march forward relatively unencumbered, not overly obsessed with what's coming back at him.

    Now, let's discuss the elephant in the room, and that elephant is, Spence himself, see.... because his big ass is the size of one.:sisi1 So say that he was a large Welterweight would be an understatement. He's bigger than Kell Brook who comfortably made 160. Sure, he makes the weight, so one can't necessarily say he's a straight up weight bully. But let's be honest, he kind of is, he's looked like a cadaver at his last several weigh ins. It was becoming increasingly hazardous for him to make it. But up until then, it proved incredibly beneficial when it came to bullying his opponents around the ring, especially against the featherfists and little fidgets that he drug up a division. I mean, he's basically a massive blown up Middleweight, marching forward, throwing non stop volume, overwhelming all who stood in his way. Basically a southpaw Jarrett Hurd with slightly better defense. Nothing real fancy or hard to work out. Of course there's the advantage of being a southpaw, regular sized ones tend to give fighters issues, but he's a mammoth southpaw, which is even more problematic. But even then, when he got tagged clean against guys like Brook, Porter, Peterson, Barrera and several other opponents, he's never really reacted well to it. There's always been the air of fragility in the way he responds. Which should tell even the most in denial illogical person, that he may be packing a wee bit of glass in that mandible of his.
     
  2. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

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    Of course we can't leave out the brutal devastating car accident back in 2019. Where he flipped his car several times, was thrown from said car as it was flying through the air, which damaged his eye, knocked out of his several teeth, and since returning, his sluggishness and slur has become noticeably far more pronounced. Not sure if he sustained a traumatic brain injury, but all of the hallmarks and warning signs are there, especially the two very worrying times where he bizarrely seemed to mentally check out after being stunned by both Danny Garcia and Ugas since returning, literally turning his back to them after they buzzed him. That's not even remotely normal no matter how you try to spin or slice it. Now only the most delusional and blind of fanboys chose to bury their head in the sand and ignore these pulsating five alarm fire red flags. Also, one must take into consideration, did that accident further impair his already questionable punch resistance? Before he was just getting slightly buzzed, but in those two matches, the buzzings were bordering on catastrophic, and the one against Ugas probably should've counted as a knockdown, he was clearly held up by the ropes.

    Then, in terms of pure boxing, we must address his struggles against the two best guys he shared the ring with. Before Brook's eye eventually gave out, Kell took between 4 to 5 rounds off of Spence and was giving him fits. His jab alone was proving to be a nightmare. Sure, it was a legit win, but he had a ready made target to tee off on, so he fought through the adversity and got the job done. But also as he stepped up in class, it became increasingly apparent that his power was quite overrated. He was never a one punch guy to start with, but his ability to cut the ring off, combined with his featherfisted opponents inability to keep him off of them, allowing him to land a veritable fusillade of punches on them, leading to eventual accumulation stoppages, greatly flattered him. Then he faced off against Porter, whose unorthodox herky jerky rhythm, persistent pesky jab and wild lunging over hands, gave him fits. The reality is, the knockdown won him that match, and even then it's debatable, because a 114-113 card for Porter was more than acceptable. So my point is, the two best pure boxers he's faced, he struggled with mightily. Especially with their jabs, which greatly inhibited his relentless output, which is also his main asset.

    Now, that brings us to the actual fight against Crawford, and the question of styles. I've already done an article highlighting the fact that Spence has always struggled against slick southpaws. He lost to both Serik Sapiyev and Andrey Zamkovoy as amateurs, both of whom are slick southpaws. Sure, he faced and beat southpaws Van Heerden and Lartey, but neither of them are known for their slickness or power. So as a pro with no headgear, against a KO artist who happens to be a slick southpaw, a style which always proved to be a nightmare for him.... this was unknown very treacherous waters to be wading in. So in the size department, advantage negated. The southpaw department, advantage negated. Output and relentless pressure department, advantage negated. Power department, advantage negated. Defense department, advantage negated. Essentially, it reduces Spence to the level of an orthodox fighter. Because all of the advantages that have benefited him in the past, have been nullified, and he's standing in front of his physical equal. Who just so happens to hit a lot harder, has the better chin, is far faster, with much better footwork, range control, reflexes, timing and accuracy. Unfortunately for him, Bud does virtually everything better than him. Bud is also a converted southpaw, which means he's naturally right handed, but trained himself to fight as a southpaw, making his most powerful hand, also his lead hand, which means his jabs have the torque on them of a power punch. Essentially making his jab into a battering ram, that he used to bludgeon Spence's face until it was coming apart at the seams. But due to every other advantage Bud possessed, he neutered Spence, reducing everything he does well, to null and void. This was easy money as easy money get, I almost went against my own anti-gambling code and put some actual cash on this one.

    So when you add up all of the differing factors I've laid out before you. You now understand why beating Spence was like taking candy from a baby for Bud Crawford, and looked like a pleasant Sunday walk in the park for him. The writing on the wall couldn't have been more stark. Now when you take those factors into consideration, how much is this win actually worth? Bud always has had a stylistic advantage over him, and the edge in virtually everything. Now, let's take into consideration, how will Spence perform at 154, that is if this one sided beatdown doesn't send him into an early retirement? Is he done as a top fighter? Has he been found out? How well will this win age? For all of the people that were tagging their hopes on Bud's struggles against lesser fighters. Those struggles were real, they were not illusions. He wasn't just fighting to the level of his opponents. No one gets voluntarily dropped by Kavaliauskas. Yes, it takes him a few rounds to figure out his orthodox opponents usually. But he also relies heavily on his power to bail him out of sticky situations, like with Porter. Because when he's at a stylistic disadvantage, he dredges up the dog in him to hand out an old school ass whipping. Because he has that next level he can go to. But the reality is, Bud is far from perfect, most of his resume isn't anything to write home about, and neither is this win over Spence. Who's been feasting on the mostly featherfisted leftovers of a weakened wasteland of a division for the majority of his career. His Haymon Protection PBC bubble got burst, now you all know, what we've all known for years, which is why he was ducking The Crawdaddy. Both he and they knew he'd be found out, and he was. But just like how Porter ravaged Paulie in 4 and Danny had to slowly plug away for 9 rounds to TKO him. Styles make fights, Bud would beat any version of Spence 100 out of 100 times. Now is that P4P worthy? Certainly. Just not P4P number 1 worthy. Those spots still belong to Usyk and Inoue, he probably edges Canel, but that's debatable.
     
  3. miniq

    miniq AJ IS A BODYBUILDING BUM Full Member

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    The truth is probably the last prime fighter top level contest we had was probably the first Canelo GGG 2017 fight, A fight I didn't give two monkeys about and still don't...Fury Wilder 2 2020 also.

    These Pac May, Craw Spence, Fury Usyk fights I don't really care. I see old or shot men getting paychecks. They NEVER LIVE UP TO THE HYPE.
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    Would Crawford beat any version of Spence I don't know or care it's hypothetical like 2009 May Pacquiao.

    Skills pay the bills is a default golden rule in boxing though. Crawford needed to grow into the weight and Spence tried his best not to grow out of it. Spence needs to retire for his health sake & Crawford can be a boxing success story if he retires in the health he currently has. His health is worth more than $20m I hope he knows that and I think he does. People will say no he shouldn't retire he looks great...boxing fans always want more and there is no competition there for him anyway!
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2023
  4. Ayatollah

    Ayatollah ESB's Godliest poster Full Member

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    Crawford was too Godly. On diff level
     
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  5. exocet76

    exocet76 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Solid post until you mention Fury v Usyk.
    If it's such a given why is Fury ducking?
    Is it because Fury wants to age Usyk out?
    The man who had 100's of amateur fights as well as his homeland being invaded?
    Fury is a pisswet at this point..
    All talk no action.
     
  6. Daddy

    Daddy Active Member Full Member

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    After reading this, I realize how much of a casual I am. Thanks for the in dept look into Spence's weaknesses. I've always felt "Crawdaddy" (thank you for the new nickname) was levels above in the skill department but I was still stuck on the smoke n mirrors of Spence's constant pressure, his ability to cut off the ring, and hard punching. This excerpt was an eye opener.
     
  7. miniq

    miniq AJ IS A BODYBUILDING BUM Full Member

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    Saudi money is not ready....when it is ready it will be made to the benefit of both Usyk & Fury.
     
  8. The Long Count

    The Long Count Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I agree with most points. The big point I agree with was I never thought this would be hard work for Crawford. I thought he would dominate and stop Spence. The last truly 50/50 match I thought going in - between elite fighters was Kovalev Ward 1 - which I always felt Kovalev won. Even Triple G vs Canelo I felt Triple G was the much better fighter - and even though I thought Triple G won the first fight I was surprised Canelo did as well as he did. This fight last night, I knew the outcome before the bell rang.
     
  9. Philly161

    Philly161 "Fundamentals are the crutch of the talentless" banned Full Member

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    God I wish I could ignore staff members
     
  10. Arch Stanton

    Arch Stanton When you have to shoot, shoot!, don't talk...... Full Member

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    I just didn't see this one coming in regards to the way the fight actually played out.

    I gave Crawford the edge and even thought he could get a late stoppage. But no way was I ready for what was pretty much a uncompetitive one sided total wrecking ball beat down destruction.

    With hindsight now, I feel that Crawford could have done it far quicker too, possibly by the 3rd or 4th rd had he thrown caution to the wind. Crawford just totally dominated at will. Spence had no answers to anything at all, nor did his corner.


    The talk of a re-match to me is pretty much laughable. What the hell could Spence do to remotely bridge that huge wide chasm in every boxing department( other than heart) that was so obvious in the fight?. What adjustments can he realistically make even at 154 to climb this murderous mountain?. What has this actually done to Spence just on a confidence and self belief level alone?...

    In a nutshell, for me, then. Crawford is simply Spences nightmare nemesis on pretty much every level.

    Best if Spence gives a rematch a very wide birth.
     
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  11. tinman

    tinman Loyal Member Full Member

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    Two things can be true and are true. Crawford is an exceptional and pure elite fighter. Meanwhile Spence is nowhere near p4p.
     
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  12. Ted Stickles

    Ted Stickles Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Terrence fought brilliantly, was so precise, and so effective at reading what Errol was doing and breaking him down systemically.

    Errol imho looked horrible and by horrible I mean he looked physically weak and looked drained and did not rehydrate well at all. He’s outgrown the division and he made a huge mistake by waiting this long.

    The outcome would have been the same as Terrence is just that good and that special but imo it would have been more competitive.
     
  13. travolt

    travolt Trolling the trolls Full Member

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    My God.

    I've read all that.
     
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  14. FrankinDallas

    FrankinDallas FRANKINAUSTIN

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    Lies, damned lies, and statistics.

    Spence had never been down in 28 fights until last night, but he is "chinny". He defeats a long list of champs or ex champs, but so what, because they were all hand picked bums. He "supposedly " gets ko'd in sparring (sparring!) as a young man vs an ATG boxer (Mayweather) so he MUST be a hype job. He survives a scary car crash, and continues to win, but that's not admirable.

    If all of the above is true (and more) then Crawford's performance last night is meaningless, and not deserving of placing him above Inoue as the PFP #1 boxer. Bottom line is Crawford defeated a personally picked hype job chinny weak ass cat crash disabled slurring damaged bum last night. Correct?
     
  15. tinman

    tinman Loyal Member Full Member

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    If Spence couldnt dent Mikey Garcia then what was he going to do with Crawford?