DO You Think Foreman Is Overrated?

All excellent points. Foreman's reign may have been longer had he not had to defend against Ali. I mean, what champion is going to keep their belt with Ali as the challenger? Not many. Ali won a fight he wasn't expected to win, to be fair some had written him off, but lots of factors went into that win. Foreman's horrible corner advice, unusually hot muggy weather, unusually loose ropes, and Ali's unusual tactics+toughness and resilience surviving nuclear bombs to the belly that would've crumbled even above average fighters.

Foreman actually did have a right to a rematch, he was the mandatory when he got the NABF title and shouldn't have had to go through Young in the first place. It's telling Ali gave so many 2nd chances to guys like Patterson, Quarry, even Chuvalo who honestly didn't deserve another shot, but not Foreman. Ali's declining health and speed would've been huge obstacles to overcome for Ali to pull off another win against Foreman who wouldn't fall for the same trick twice.

I definitely consider it, and it's laughable to say Frazier was "washed up" when you look at his performances in the Ali rematches, the Bugner fight, etc. He still had stuff left in the tank after the Foreman loss. People just refuse to give Foreman credit for many of his wins.

 

I don’t see how you penalize a guy for knocking out Frazier and Norton, etc.

The fact that they couldn’t take him into deep water is pretty telling. I guess they should have thought of that.

 

I like this game! Let me give it a shot
Tommy Burns won a vacant title from Marvin Root, so he never beat the actual champion
Johnson beat Burns who won a vacant title, paper champ and when he beat Jeffries he was past it and retired
Willard beat an old Johnson who may or may not have thrown the fight so terrible win
Dempsey beat Willard who was inactive and not good to begin with
Tunney beat a semi-retired Dempsey who was checked out of boxing mentally and very inactive
Schmelimg never beat Tunney and he won the title on a foul
Sharkey beat Schmeling who won the title on a DQ and didn't beat Tunney as stated previously
Carnera beat Sharkey and Sharkey has always been hot and cold so horrible win, and, Carnera has been accused of winning fixed fights
Baer never any good just a puncher beats the giant Carnera who was too one demensional
Braddock beats Baer who was just overconfident and not focused
As said Louis beat Braddock who was basically a journey man on a hot streak
Charles beats Walcott who can't win the big one and then beats an old Louis to cement his title reign
Walcott finally wins against light heavy Charles, his 5th try at the title
Marciano beats Walcott who is ancient for a heavy champ at this stage of history
Patterson as said wins the title of an old light heavy Moored and doesn't fight or beat Marciano
Ingo gets lucky on protected Patterson
Patterson regains the title from In go who got lucky beforehand
Liston demolishes Patterson but Patterson was always chinny and ducking Liston
Ali beats old unmotivated Liston
Frazier wins a vacant title from guys not named Ali, then beats Ali who was a shadow of his fomer self because of inactivity
Foreman beats one dimensional Frazier, but Frazier is tailored made for Foreman
Ali beats Foreman, but Foreman is probably jet lagged and he was one dimensional slugger anyway
Spinks beats an old Ali who is on a severe slide
Ali beats Spinks who is inexperienced and never good to begin with
Holmes bests Ali who is in absolutely horrible shape at this point
Spinks wins a drcision over Holmes who is looking for easy fights at this point and is older
Tyson KOs Spinks who's a petrified light heavy with bad knees
Douglas beats a partyed out, untrained Tyson
Holyfield KOs a Douglas who's biggest concern is the buffet
Bowe goes life and death with a Holyfield that had struggled with Bert Cooper, and two 40 year plus old heavyweights
Holyfield beats Bowe because of a freak fan man occurrence
Moorer beats Holyfield who has a bad heart and health problems
Foreman lucks out and KOs chinny Moorer in a fight he was losing
Briggs wins a controversial decision against mummified Foreman
Lewis KOs Briggs who wasn't good to begin with
Rahman KOs an unfocused Lewis who was filming a movie, overlooking Hasim, and wasnt acclimated to the altitude
Lewis KOs Rahman who wasn't good to begin with
Klitchskos can't unify in like 15 years of being atop the division

And here we are, there has never been a good lineal heavyweight title win

 

Very nice!

The HW Division has always been replete with ne’re do wells.

What a disappointing illusion ALL our HW Champs have been.

And to think this whole thing kicked off with a puny, pompous, g-string wearing bank clerk beating up on a fat, drunken old man.

An absolute travesty from the get go.

 

His reign wasn’t going to go anywhere. He might’ve defended against Lyle and lost to Young.

 

I mean, he did emphatically wipe out Frazier and Norton but there's reason to believe that say, a young Mike Tyson or Lennox Lewis could have done the same.

People love heavyweight KO punchers and Foreman was one of the best there was. Also, his boxing skills are underrated. He had a very good jab, he punched with good technique (look at the Frazier massacre, he was punching with his legs and his shots looked crisp), he could cut off the ring like no one's business and he had a good chin (though I think it was better in his comeback, I don't think Lyle would have floored 42 year old Foreman that fought Holyfield).

 

And he might've beaten both Lyle and Young.

 

You win! Anyone could've won the title apparently. All dubious wins and nobody should get any credit. I'm just going to do this from now on when people apply this standard to the boxers they hate and demand objectivity for the boxers they like.

 

A lot of Foremans success seems to have been based on being the bigger stronger man if we transfer him to another era do we let him keep those advantages or does he stay as he is?

 

Ask Gerry Cooney.

 

So, Gerry did eventually wake up since George KO'd him? Thank God for that.

 

One of the great 'ducks' of the era, not giving Foreman a rematch.

 

How much do you read into Foreman being psychologically destroyed by the Ali loss and then not really the same caliber of fighter post Ali? I always got the impression the Young win (while an excellent one for Jimmy) was more down to Foreman's crumbling confidence and losing interest in the game at that time?

George was feared enough before the Ali fight, if George had crushed Ali I think most of his future opponents would have faced him with the same level of fear as many of Tyson's opponents in his prime. While not in anyway removing the prospect of an overconfident Foreman being upset I would be surprised if he had not held the title for a few more years.

I mean looking at Ali's opposition during his second reign, there are not that many who I feel could beat Foreman. Lyle (as we saw but George still crushed him) and Shavers have a punchers chance, Young of course, and Bugner had the skills but not the motivation. Depending on the manner of the victory Ali could have got a rematch and won the title back. But outside of these guys I don't see many other contenders of the time who stood a chance and with careful match making George could have held the title until Holmes came along. There may have been some close shaves but Ali and Holmes both had some life and death matches but came through in the end.