DO You Think Foreman Is Overrated?

Overrated no.. You don't demolish the guys he demolished being overated. I think his overall skills as a complete fighter were not clear.. He was not a complete fighter in that he could beat everyone.. his power was underrated and his skills when the power was not enough were not enough at times. But he was an all time great... Not like Ali a clear all time great heavyweight.

 

No ****ing way. Solid all-time heavyweight.

 

But many do believe that Foreman was psychologically damaged by the Ali loss (myself included) - not revisionism, rather, it was a strongly held and well informed opinion as at the time.

Suffice to say, the Toronto Circus and Foreman’s clinical preoccupation with Ali was not evidence of a fighter untainted by his loss in Zaire.

Post Zaire, Foreman was in the difficult process of reinventing himself and trying to firm up on an optimal style and pacing even when he faced Young - the ghost of his defeat by Ali still hung heavy for George.

The untainted version of Foreman may well have gone out to execute Young from first bell and succeeded in doing so. Also, the undefeated version of Forman might’ve had Young that much more leery of him.

Young definitely benefited from seeing what Ali was able to do on the way to busting Foreman’s aura of invincibility.

He also benefited from fighting a different and inferior version of Foreman.

IMO, viewed in due context - Young’s decision over Foreman was that much less of an achievement than Ali’s KO victory over Foreman in Zaire.

Even so, a single left hook from the “lite” and already flagging version of Foreman in round 7 still had Young all but out. Foreman’s power was phenomenal.

As to Bugner beating Foreman? - well, that’s a no from me….unless we’re talking the later, vastly superior, “Aussie” Joe version of Bugner - then I’d agree that “version” could well tip over prime Foreman.

Fighting out of Oz, boxing kangaroos and wrasslin’ the biggest crocs in the world saw a major uplift in Joe’s fighting qualities and career overall.

Give us a good to very good fighter in The Land Down Under and we’ll then give you an ATG (see Bob Fitz, Boxing’s first Triple World Champion).

 

Oh yeah I forgot everyone Foreman didn't fight, he ducked.

Why the hell would Foreman fight him in his first comeback? He'd lost to Frazier.... who Foreman ended up fighting. Had he fought Bugner instead you'd be spouting crap the likes of "Odd how Foreman didn't give Frazier a rematch.... perhaps he knew the first time was a fluke."

 

Nah, Foreman was destined to take an L because he wasn’t pacing himself correctly and was easy to hit; it didn’t need to be at the hands of Ali. Maybe the fact that he actually finished 12 against Young shows that he had improved.

 

He was used as a high profile beatable opponent by Bruno but was, frankly, too durable and talented for Foreman.

 

I don’t normally reply unless I’m given a “like” in the first instance, but in your case NN, I’ll make a rare exception. I’ve given you a “like” in good faith and to set the tone. Joking.

Sure, at some point the lack of pacing was going to bite Foreman in the ***, but without Ali, I think it would’ve happened somewhat later rather than sooner.

I think it more than possible that an untainted Foreman could’ve rolled Young in 4-5 rounds but after that point, it still gets that much tougher for Foreman - as it actually did against Young.

I get you re Foreman having “improved” to last 12 rounds - the improved pacing likely allowed for that, but the express pacing also took from Foreman’s expressly aggressive approach - which might’ve seen Young off early and mooted the question of Foreman’s stamina betraying him.

Just imo, Foreman had yet to finely calibrate and achieve optimal balance between his aggression and pacing.

Certainly, his pacing in the Frazier rematch was superfluous but it was of course an investment for the future when such pacing would be definitely required.

Anyway, worst case scenario - Young might’ve presented as Foreman’s stylistic bogeyman - as Young actually did with several other top notch contenders of the day and the Champ Ali himself (all be Ali in terrible shape for that fight).

However, that still wouldn’t necessarily render Foreman as unviable against the majority of the field otherwise.

 

Agreed. It's not even a logical take.

Bugner was barely relevant in the latter half of the '70s. By then, he was clearly contemplating his future in boxing and, to all intents and purposes, winding down his career. He actually retired in early '76, following his loss to Ali the previous year.

Bugner came out of retirement, later that same year (but after more than a year out of the ring), only 'to set the record straight' against Dunn, who he paneled inside of a round. But, he also injured his right hand, as a result, and was not given the clear to fight until January '77.

The Foreman/Young fight had been made by then - for March '77.

Bugner was matched against Lyle - for March '77.

Both Foreman and Bugner lost their respective March '77 bouts and both retired for the remainder of the '70s.

 

Conveniently ignoring the fact that one of those losses was to the consensus all time no 1,and the other to the reigning champion when he himself was in his 40's

 

Would that be because he ko'd men earlier and so didn't need to?
He went 12 rds with the reigning champion without using his stool when he was 42 years old.

 

He's a top ten all time heavyweight imo.

 

Bugner wasn't ranked after 76 when he was no 10.He was never a draw outside the UK and most of his fights were stinkers.

 

True, but seeing him in top 5's is more baffling. He simply doesn't have 'championship' dominance to enjoy such a lofty status. His prime is all a bit 'would've, could've", but didn't.