Who Should the #3 Consensus Heavyweight of All Time Be?

He's doing well in this poll too.

 

1. Ali
2. Holmes
3. Louis

 

but he got KOD twice in his prime and arguably lost the 2nd Holyfield who was not prime. It would be a bit of stretch to rank him in the Top 3. but Top 5 is ok

 

Who cares. He beat both guys, too. He didn't lose non-title fights. And he didn't arguably lose anything to Holyfield.

Did Ali or Louis beat everyone who beat them? Did they finish out their careers as winners?

And Lewis beat Hall of Fame heavyweight champions to win Gold and to conclude his career.

That never happens.

 

Ali is my #1, Holmes and Lennox are my #2 and #3 and Foreman and Louis are my #4 and #5.

 

Not that I necessarily disagree but an argument for Holmes to be over Lewis. Is that Holmes had his Rahman, McCall, moments vs Snipes, Shavers, and he got up and survived unlike Lewis. Which is a form of a greatness in itself which should be taken in consideration.

 

I think the consensus is that it's one of those two. So, in a way, there is a consensus

 

the thing is Lewis got KOD by lesser fighters in his prime. Holmes did not.

Most of press row had it for Holyfield in the second fight. Holmes probably beat Spinks cleaner in their rematch

 

For me it's between Holyfield Lewis and Holmes. Holyfield has the best resume here, but he was never quite as dominant as the other two, he conclusively lost the trilogy to Bowe, lost to Moorer, lost to Lewis and fought on wayyy too long.

Lewis has the next best resume, but missed out on fighting Bowe and only beat pretty past it versions of Tyson and Holy. He was certainly a more dominant fighter than Holy though, having beaten every man he ever faced.

Holmes certainly has the weakest resume here, but on the other hand is certainly the most dominant. 7 years straight as champ with 19 consecutive title defenses. He did miss out on fighting some good names from his era though, the likes of Pinklon Thomas, Michael Dokes, Greg Page, and Gerrie Coetzee.

If I had to choose id go for balance, and Lewis had the most complete and balanced career here. Good resume, dominant, retired on top.

Some honourable mentions would be Frazier and Foreman

 

I voted for Foreman since Wladimir Klitschko wasn't available otherwise I'd choose him.

 

What's Fury's name doing on this list? Comic relief?

 

If Larry Holmes hadn't fallen face first into the corner after being floored against Renaldo Snipes, Larry would've been floored, gotten up and fallen right down again ... and the fight would've been over. And neither Snipes nor Shavers were champs. They were "lesser" fighters.

Hell, Rahman was a two-time champ. McCall beat Holmes, too.

Larry was also floored by Kevin Isaac and wiped out by Tyson.

Larry didn't win Olympic Gold against a future Hall of Fame World Heavyweight Champion. He got dominated and lost in the trials to Duane Bobick.

Larry didn't finish his career winning a heavyweight title fight against a future Hall of Fame World Heavyweight Champion. Larry finished it against Butterbean.

Larry fought 12 heavyweight, light heavy and cruiserweight champs (Norton, Ocasio, Weaver twice, Ali, Smith twice, Spoon, Leon, Michael Spinks twice, Tyson, Mercer, Holyfield, McCall) and his record is 10-5.

Lennox fought 16 heavyweight and cruiserweight champs (Tyson, Vitali, Holyfield twice, Bruno, Weaver, Morrison, Mercer, Tucker, Rahman twice, McCall twice, Botha, Briggs, Akinwande, Tucker, McCrory, Ocasio). His record against them is 16-2-1.

 

I don't recall most of press row having the second fight for Holyfield. I do remember most of press row had Carl Williams beating Holmes and Witherspoon beating Holmes. Most even felt Maurice Harris beat Holmes.

And can you imagine Lennox Lewis losing his title to some light heavyweight champ like Bernard Hopkins or light heavyweight champ Joe Calzaghe, for Christ's sake?

I loved Michael Spinks. Huge fan. But Michael was picked to LOSE. After Carl Williams appeared to beat Holmes, Don King didn't trust putting Larry in the ring with any heavyweights.

So Larry was supposed to finish up his run fighting light heavyweight champ Spinks and WBC cruiserweight champ Ratliff.

Those were the two softest touches he could find. (Mike Tyson took care of them in one round and two rounds, respectively - not to mention Larry in four).

And Larry couldn't beat Michael.

If Lennox Lewis lost his title to a light heavyweight, he wouldn't even be in the running.

 

1. What's your definition of an ATG?

2. Why doesn't Lewis fit into that definition?

These aren't snarky rhetorical questions btw, genuinely curious.

 

Very tight with quite a few in the frame. I say Larry Holmes just about takes it.