Why Oleksandr Usyk Should Be P4P Number 1 Over Both Terence Crawford & Naoya Inoue.

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by CST80, Aug 2, 2023.


  1. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

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    What an insightful counter argument.
     
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  2. PH|LLA

    PH|LLA VIP Member Full Member

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    Some things are just too obvious to argue over.
     
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  3. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

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    Or... you're simply unwilling to, because any argument you attempt will fall apart. I laid out a pretty open and shut case.
     
  4. Ioakeim Tzortzakis

    Ioakeim Tzortzakis Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I agree on Usyk having the best resume and overall career of the three. If all three were to retire today, Usyk would rank the highest in an all time sense. But he has also been inactive for a whole year, whereas Inoue and Crawford both fought this year and in december of last year, giving us a better and clearer impression of their current state. And now he's going to fight a very mundane fighter in Dubois, add him being 36 and I have a hard time believing he is clearly the best fighter in the world at this very moment.

    He very well could be, if he fights and beats Fury then the argument is all over. But the P4P rankings should obviously be based not only on overall accomplishments, but on the current condition and ability of the fighter, otherwise Pacquiao would have been the P4P number 1 from 2016-2021, and I just don't think Usyk is clearly ahead of either Inoue or Crawford at this moment. If he beats Dubois the same way he beat Gassiev so many years ago, then the argument is still there ( May God have mercy on our souls and let the Fury fight happen), but if he struggles, then it's basically over.
     
  5. James Hudson

    James Hudson Active Member Full Member

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    Those are my top 3....not necessarily in the same order though. Based on current form and activity as of todays date is the reason why i dont have Uysk as my number 1. I cant have him top based on what he achieved 2019 and prior
     
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  6. DaRealJT

    DaRealJT Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Yeah, Oleksandr “Only Fights Once a Year” Usyk’s outstanding resume in the past 5 years of shot Tony Bellew on the verge of retirement, bum Chazz Witherspoon, a controversial narrow win over shot Derek Chisora, and limited Anthony Joshua who people only magically started hyping up after he got beat by Usyk, is definitely P4P #1 material over Naoya Inoue and Terence Crawford who have been KOing an endless gauntlet of active world champions in non-controversial extremely dominant fashion :facepalm:
     
  7. VanBasten

    VanBasten Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Sorry lad but Usyk is not number one and you have greatly overemphasised his achievements.

    While I agree that Joshua comes in for undue criticism, he is not a Grade A boxer. I’m really not sure how you have managed to shoehorn him into such a category, in all honesty.

    Usyk won both fights by pot shotting for the entire 24 rounds of their two bouts. I don’t think he planted his feet to punch and never once troubled AJ.

    He also struggled against Chisora; a one dimensional plodder who had lost 4 of his previous 10 going into the fight.

    His stoppage of Bellew is not that impressive either. Bellew was cashing out in his final fight. He turned up with a roll of flab over his belt and was visibly gassed by the end of the fourth round.

    He won the WBSS by scrapping a SD in the semi final against Briedis - a fight which many thought Usyk lost.

    That Usyk won the cruiserweight WBSS only points to how deficient and unnecessary that weight class is. It should be held in the same level of contempt that bridgerweight is.
     
  8. African Cobra

    African Cobra The Right Honourable Lord President of the Council banned Full Member

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    Crawford is P4P number 1. Usyk will need to beat Fury to take the spot
     
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  9. African Cobra

    African Cobra The Right Honourable Lord President of the Council banned Full Member

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    You need to consider overall body of work plus recent achievements. Crawford is currently the Concensus pick as P4P number 1 which is ultimately a subjective pick. My top 5 currently are as follows:

    1. Crawford
    2. Inoue
    3. Usyk
    4. Tank
    5. Shakur

    Was tempted to put Jermell in the top 5 as a current undisputed champion, obviously Canelo and Haney worthy of consideration as are the 2 Light Heavyweight world champions.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2023
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  10. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

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    No, what you're doing here is slandering his achievements, and to be honest, it doesn't sound like you've actually watched any of the matches you cite. Although I'll be nice, since I like you.

    Name me one boxer on Crawford and Inoue resumes that's his superior, based on actual wins.

    Clearly you never saw the first fight, Usyk rocked him about 4 to 5 times, then had him out on his feet for the last round, seconds away from TKOing him, after the match, AJ collapsed in his corner and could barely move for 5 minutes.

    And, so let me get this straight? Does that mean we have to retroactively go back and erase Floyd and Ward from all of their P4P Top 1 & 2 spots? You know, because they were both featherifists, and especially Floyd had a tendency to pot shot.

    Not sure what you're definition of struggling is, but losing the first two rounds, the second one barely.... ain't struggling.

    So... around the level of Shawn Porter, who barely trained and retired right after, yet still managed to steal 5 to 6 rounds off of Bud?

    No, he won the final 117-111, but because it was in his opponent's home country it was a SD. No one thought he lost except for haters who wanted to tear him down. Regardless, Briedis has an incredible skillset and is tough as nails, all it takes is to watch a handful of his matches to see, he's far more skilled than the vast majority of Inoue and Crawford opponents.

    This might be one of the most casual things I've seen anyone write on here in quite some time, and that pains me to say that about you. That division at the time, was easily one of the strongest in the sport, filled to the brim with genuine killers. At the very least, go and watch some matches from some of his opponents so you can understand where the hype is coming from.
     
  11. Jackman65

    Jackman65 FJB Full Member

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    Great analysis. I have no problem with a Usyk being ranked one or two but he needs to fight more frequently. Crawford destroyed Spence and I believe he earned the top spot. I know people are slagging Spence these days but most of those people (I know not you) picked Spence to beat Crawford. That was as close to being a 50-50 super fight as it gets and Crawford dominated every aspect of the fight.

    If Fury grows a set of testicles and agrees to fight Usyk and Usyk wins (even if the judges rob him) he deserves top spot without a doubt. He’s giving up more size than anyone in boxing and winning on sheer boxing skill. Loma got royally hosed against the much bigger, younger Haney and it bothers me to see Haney in many PFP lists that don’t include Loma. Most fans and boxing writers have short memories and seem to forget what actually happened that night and how bad that decision was. That’s BULL****. So are the lists that include Canelo in the top three or four but no mention of Bivol or Bivol listed 10th. Bivol gave Canelo a thorough beating and boxing lesson. PFP fighters don’t lose that convincingly to guys who are pretty much the same size (Bivol can still make 168 but Canelo wants no part of him at that weight be sore he knows Bivol will take away his belts).

    I follow Inoue but rarely watch other little guys. I am the wrong person to rank smaller guys even though I respect their skills. Seeing Usyk give up thirty or forty pounds to AJ on fight night and then seeing smaller guys move up two weight classes by gaining five or six pounds seems unfair. Plus it’s more fun for me to see larger guys fight. If that makes me ignorant or a casual, it’s okay. I’ve been called worse.

    I just hope we see some of these fights soon. Usyk, Crawford and Loma are on the wrong side of 35. Especially Usyk who gives up so much size and who depends on speed and endurance to win. Those are typically not qualities fighters take into their 40’s. Sorry for the rant.
     
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  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Usyk is number 3 now for me. Ring were the last holdouts, they moved him yesterday.

    The thing is, Usyk's mutli-weight shenanigans puts an awful lot of pressure on his wins over AJ. Usyk was very impressive at CW, no doubt, but Naoya and Crawford have riffled through the weights taking out multiple divisional number ones/twos (Naoya especially is insanely impressive in this). Meanwhile, Naoya's leap from flyweight to bantamweight is historically the most difficult. It is very very difficult to be a world champion at 112lbs and do it, too, at 118lbs. He's gone further than that now (amd from 108). Meanwhile, 135 and 147? The people who have been the legitimate best in the world at this weight are an absurd list of ATG types. It is crazy that Crawford has added himself to that list, really.

    It's definitely difficult to do 200 and unlimited just as it was to do 175 and unlimited but it's the easiest of the three tasks to hand. And AJ had already been thrashed more impressively by Ruiz. I'm not running his achievement down because it's incredibly impressive and make shim the clear number three - there are three elite pound-for-pound legacies live in the sport at once which is a lot for post-2000. But Usyk is clearly number three i'd say and will remain there at least until he takes on someone else at the top of the division/gets busier. In the end he's fought once in 13 months or something. The case would have been really interesting if he'd taken on and beaten Fury.
     
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  13. Mickc

    Mickc Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Usyk is without doubt a class talent but I’ve said it before and il say it again,at the moment too much is being made of him up at Heavyweight. Currently four fights at Heavyweight with two of those over journeymen feeling his way into the new Division and two wins over Joshua to take the belts,the same Joshua who quit on his feet against Ruiz. If Usyk beats Fury then without a doubt he is P4P no1 however as for now he’s sitting third for me behind Inoue and Crawford in top spot .
     
  14. miniq

    miniq AJ IS A BODYBUILDING BUM Full Member

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    After Fury slaps Usyk he is P4P #1

    Wlad, Widler & Usyk in dominating fashion beats anyone else's resume.
     
  15. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    Crawford was gigantic for 135, very big for 140, and he's a big 147 pounder too and he often been the bigger man, had a weight, reach, or both advantage or a significant weight, reach or both advantage and he has never been at reach disadvantage in a single one of his world title fights.

    As I keep saying, he's never giving away big physical advantages in terms of weight and reach and even in his third weight class all these guys he's fought weigh at worst the same as him. So all this talk of him moving up and beating bigger, let lone much bigger, guys is misleading because you can clearly see with your eyes it's not true.

    And he's barely fought any legit punchers, let alone ones his size or KO artists his size.

    Here he is getting badly hurt by a leprechaun half his size. Gamboa has stopped 2 of his 13 opponents at 135 IIRC

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    Here he is getting dropped and hurt by one of the few legit bangers he's fought and I know for a fact Crawford's the same size at worst as him if not heavier because Egis comes in at 160 and Crawford was coming in as high as 157 at 140 and he's obviously significantly bigger at 147

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    Usyk has fought a murderer's row of punchers, legit bangers and KO artists and all in their backyards, a number of whom way bigger and heavier than him with huge physical advantages over him, and we've never seen either of those things happen to him


    Gassiev
    AJ
    Briedis
    Bellew
    Glowacki
    Chisora
    Huck
    Hunter

    And pretty much all of them are better than Mean Machine

    Stick Crawford in there with a murderous punching same size Gassiev, huge punching Briedis and a way bigger huge punching AJ and let them crack him on the jaw like that and he'd be in a world of trouble.

    And Usyk's fighting an absolutely murderous puncher in his next fight who is way bigger and heavier than him. There's a huge difference between taking a big shot from a same weight Mean Machine and a way bigger and heavier Dubois. Dubois is one of the hardest punchers in the division and if Usyk makes the slightest mistake it could easily be lights out for him.


    And every single one of Crawford's fights sans one have been in his home country, always with a home ref and at least 2 or 3 home judges the most part. Postol, Indongo and Horn brought their titles to his country for him and the rest of the world champs he fought sans Burns again fought him in his country too.

    The fact that so many, as they did with Haney vs Kambosos, Spence vs Brook, and Fulton vs Inoue made such a huge deal out of him travelling to the UK to face Burns and wanted to pin a medal of honor on him for doing so speaks volumes. Usyk won, unified, and defended all his world titles in his opponent's backyards for goodness sake. If Crawford did that he'd be anointed the king of the universe.