Eddie Futch's favorites.

I could see Holmes being a bit over confident and set in his ways, and Futch seeing more potential in Bowe, Futch may have tried to fine tune some things with Holmes and then when it came fight time he wouldn't exhibit it

 

Except that one time when he drop kicked Trevor Berbick from a car. Legendary moment for Holmes.

 

Berbick deserved it you don't talk out of pocket about another mans wife.

 

Every super star is allowed 1-2 crazy moments. They're still human. And yes, Berbick 100% deserved it. I re watched that drop kick 10x. I'm surprised Holmes wasn't invited to perform in the WWE. One of the funniest outside the ring moments in boxing history.

 

Berbick 100% deserved it, especially knowing now what he ended up doing later on. That's why I consider that a legendary moment from Holmes.

 

If anything Foreman is starting to become a little underrated. Especially those who think because the GOAT beat him any half assed slickster throughout history could as well.

 

He is by some, but without the Moorer win he wasn't getting in that many all-time top 10s, so that could be classed as underrating him

Well, those who think that, is due to a combo of both Ali AND Young beating him, so don't kid yourself it's just the former.

 

To be fair, Rich Giachetti and Holmes fell out despite a very long and close partnership. Holmes felt Giachetti was too much of a control freak amongst other issues (I think Giachetti even double crossed him). Maybe his issues with him leaked into his issues with Futch. Some people take their bad experiences and allow it to affect their relationship with the next person. Holmes being tight with his wallet and not wanting to pay the trainers their worth doesn't surprise me tho.

As for Holmes thinking he knew enough and didn't need to always listen, that's unfortunate because Futch was a gold mine of knowledge. Holmes could've used the tutelage because he was simply "ok" in some areas outside of his jab and footwork. It has worked for him for dozens of fights so I'm sure in his mind he was doing everything right.

 

Well it's clear as day Foreman was objectively a very different fighter upon his return from Zaire. He was replaced by a noticeably less aggressive, version who paced himself, which on paper should've made him a better fighter but it didn't.

Also, Clancy tried to change Foreman's stance and body mechanics. He made Foreman bring his feet to close together, which prevented Foreman from utilizing all of his power and left him off balance quite a bit (perhaps never more apparent in the 7th round against Young when he had him ready to go), his jab also became notably weaker and though it still looked good, it was more or less just there, when before it was a beautiful weapon that could stun and stagger very durable ATGs such as Frazier. The first time it was very noticeable was against Dino Dennis

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Another example of Foreman's style changing is his fight with Lyle. JT explains it better than I ever could in this post below

Their's a reason Foreman dropped all of Clancy's teachings in his comeback.

Another thing is Foreman's fight with Frazier. Foreman NEVER should've needed 5 rounds to get rid of Frazier, let alone this shot, obese, half blind version of Frazier he did face. He was also visibly rocked, sported a black eye, and may even have dropped a round or so. Does anyone here really think this version of Frazier would've made it 5 with '73 Foreman? Hell does anyone here think this version of Frazier would've made it even 2?

That's not even to mention his mental state, and shattered confidence following his loss to Ali. I don't even want to go into the Toronto 5 circus.

Another thing, is Foreman flew into Puerto Rico less than 24 hours before the bout, not letting him acclimatize not only to the temperature, but the change in environment as well. He was also visibly dehydrated, having gassed badly despite his relatively tame output, and was diagnosed with heat prostration and heat exhaustion so it wasn't merely an excuse like many others call it.

 

Yes, it should have. Clancy knew enough about huge punchers to know they tended to lack stamina and why he wanted George to fight a more patient fight- the wrecking machine had come unstuck, so it seemed like a decent enough plan.

It wasn't going too badly, he's become the #1 contender again, Ali was clearly ducking him and he signed to fight the #3 heavyweight in the world- and foolishly under-estimated him.

But if anyone has seen the Young-Lyle 2nd fight would realise how much he regarded Jimmy- he spends the whole fight talking up how good Lyle's looking when Ron's losing virtually every round. The sport's most baffling co-commentator was even worse in the early days.

Yes, perhaps if the 73 version has gotten Young in that kind of trouble, he would have stopped him. Who Knows? A good chance he would have. But Jimmy had great survival instincts, and would tie and wrestle George- just like Frazier and Norton didn't...or wouldn't (or couldn't)!

He doesn't, but he's made to measure for George, Jimmy wasn't. Hence the reason I stated that people think the reason he'd lose to many slicksters is because of both the Ali and Young fights. You don't- that's fine. But I wasn't referring to you, I was referring to those who think Foreman's overrated- and it's a combination of these fights- and like I said earlier- he was hardly ever in all-time top 10s based on his first career- and rightly so.

In fact, I actually remember reading a mag called, i think, Boxing Scene and being pleasantly surprised (and glad) that George made the top 15. I will still have the issue somewhere. Evander's on the cover and i think it's from around 1992- so George has even embarked on his comeback and had a fine losing effort to Holy- and still doesn't make the Top 10.

Yeah, i've seen this a lot recently on here, it seems to be mentioned virtually every time I log onto here (usually by yourself). I don't recall hearing it being just 'one day' previously (as in years ago). This may be true, I don't know but it's fairly new to me. Where did you first hear/read it?

He still went 12 rounds and, yeah, of course he gassed, he tended to in the 2nd half of fights anyway back then (in the rare instances he went that far). Like predicted in the Boxing News 'Jungle' previews how they'd witnessed Foreman 'gasping for air like a fish out of water' and looking like he will "collapse from his own hit & miss exertions". Quotes that were all based on events pre-Zaire.

Didn't he sack Clancy after this fight? Blaming him for the defeat- just like he sacked Dick Sadler, as he blamed him for the Ali loss. He should have learned from the Peralta fights that some fighters aren't going to be bowled over in 2 rounds- especially smart, crafty boxers.

 

I have to assume so given his reputation. I’ve read Larry’s biography and I don’t think Holmes thought much of Futch, I don’t remember Eddie being mentioned all that much at all, but don’t take it as fact from me I’ve got a shot memory and there were too many funny stories to remember instead lol.

 

It was more a case of him being fully established when Eddie came in. Still, doesn't surprise me he was "difficult". He was. Did he ever give anyone any credit? He even said Mac Foster could have beaten Tyson.

 

“Everyone here could’ve beat Tyson” Ali and Frazier were sitting in the room when he said that but he probably also meant the guy interviewing them too LOL.