Muhammad Ali vs Gene Tunney

Tunney decision - Ali would've struggled with a high-level counterpuncher. Tunney's too smart imo.

 

Ali KHTFO.

Tunney never faced a decent heavyweight, let alone the GOAT.

 

Nice analysis,, and accurate

 

It would be interesting to see who plays the matador in this one.

 

What did Tunney do better than Ali?

 

I only rate Tunney as a HW due to history. In reality, he wasn't. Dempsey shouldn't have been a champion in the first place given his inactivity (3 years is crazy). Tunney also drew the color line and had an incredibly thin resume even by that era's standards. Spare me the details of his LHW career, not interested.

In terms of skill, Ali can match or exceed Tunney in many areas. He is also bigger, stronger, more durable, and his unorthodox outside style combined with amazing agility would give Tunney nightmares (assuming he even gets in the ring). This is a massacre. A leopard vs a tiger.

 

Tunney was all around a better technician, I think thats pretty obvious. He worked the body, better at feinting, not far off in terms of speed, very good at controlling distance, suckering his opponent in and rattling off punches. He would've been a tall glass of milk for anybody. The strike against him of course is that he drew the color line and didn't have a particularly long reign as Heavyweight champion. So I will admit that there is a lot of conjecture in my prediction.

As far as Ali's technical prowess is concerned all he had was a jab and a right hand. Everything else he had (i.e. speed, great radar) was god-given, he never learnt the fundamentals of boxing, he never learnt how to defend himself properly - once the speed left it was open season and he had to turn into a street fighter to win. He was lucky he never had to face a great TECHNICAL heavyweight because he would've been exposed. The guys who gave him the most trouble outside of Frazier were the more technical fighters like Norton, Young, Doug Jones and Bob Foster (at the beginning of the fight), there is definitely a pattern. None of those guys are as good as Tunney.

 

That is not the only strike against him.
Tunney at his pak was 6' & just under 190 lbs.
He would be a rehydrated LHW today.
Or a very small CW in the unlikely event he did not weight drain.
If you posit him gaining weight that is not what he was, but might be-which may or may not make him better or worse.

None of the guys you cited giving Ali trouble fought him in his prime.
As great as Tunney was, even if he had a stylistic advantage-& he does not, both are boxers...
Beating a somewhat larger & longer & even faster boxer is very unlikely.

 

You saved me a post!

 

It would indeed.

Our understanding of Tunney is greatly distorted by the Dempsey fights, which are excellent footage, but show him using an atypical (for him) style.

If you look at Tunney in the Carpentier fight, or the Heeney fight, he is going after them.

Now would he chose to pressure Ali in that way, or would he go on teh back foot like he did against Dempsey, and force Ali to fight on the front foot?

 

Well I was talking about a 'strike' in terms of his record.
I don't see how that observation about his weight makes an iota of difference.

Well Ali's 'prime' only lasted about 3 fights: Williams, Terrell, Folley. So he didn't really have much of a prime.
I don't think Ali was much faster, definitely not with his hands. And the result of the fight would largely depend on who played the matador and who played the aggressor.
There are many fighters who beat opponents that were bigger and longer than them... Please try making an actual point.

 

You're right. I think Tunney's versatility would make the fight interesting. Plus Ali never really went forward unless he had his opponent hurt. He preferred to stay on the outside.

 

I don't entirely agree with this.

Ali was not so much a technical boxer, as a man who could capture lightning in a bottle, with his god given reflexes.

That meant that a smaller and slower boxer had some options to work with.

He could also look very awkward when forced to fight on the front foot.

You are right that Ali should be favored here, but if I am Tunney's trainer, I can have some fun with this.

 

"All he had was a jab and a right hand."lol
What else did Holmes have?
"Foster caused him some problems." Knocked down 7 times in less than 8 rds and counted out .

• udge: Anthony Smercina 27-35
• Judge: Bill Stremmell 27-35
• Judge: Wally Rusk 28-35
• SHUTOUT!

 

IMO peak Gene Tunney would have a chance to beat post Manila Muhammad Ali, and green Cassius Clay.