Would a Marciano born in the 80s or 90s have been trained as a HW?

Only qualification I have here is that it would not have been at all extreme for Rocky to make LHW.
At his most he was late 180's, he said on film that his best was 187/188.
He did lose weight to GET there, but unlike Foreman/Saddler's stupdity, no indication he was dehydrated on fight night. Just reduced body fat when he tended to put on weight...

A rule of thumb is 10% within 24 hours is what is not too difficult.
It has been pointed out elsewhere guys usually have @ 36 hours.

Losing & regaining at most 7% of his body weight in a day & a half-at least when not already dehydrated at his "before" weight...
Is not very difficult nor unusual.

 

Extreme as in a LHW weighing c188lbs on fight night would be an extreme outlier today? No, agreed.

Thats not what i said though. I said weight draining today is commonly more extreme than it was in the 80s and 90s, which it is.

 

I have only ever posted on this web site, with this username and check hook boxing with a different user name.

The first fight with Bowe was very close and Holyfield was just over 200 pounds. I consider Bowe at his peak at that time and not many would have competed as well against Bowe that night. Just over 200 pounds Holyfield may have been at his best imo.

Tyson was a short fighter with a short reach . If he had of maintained his discipline he arguably could have beat everyone in the 90s.

Marciano did have a smaller frame. And you’re right you can’t put on mass and have the same work rate. But over 12 rounds it might be basically a similar work rate from Marciano.

But I think Marciano would be best to add the weight by doing less road work and not add the weight by weight lifting.I would have him add the weight with sparing and bag work mostly. So all the blood goes to the right muscles, and he gets built up the right way.

 

The problem in the comparison with Holy is that he was 6-2 with a 78" reach. The comparison with both Holy and Tyson is that they both had speed of hand and foot, Tyson ridiculously so. They both had excellent, if not immaculate, technique. They both had perfect balance in attack and defense and every moment shifting between them. And lastly, they were both proven against elite, superheavies, something Marciano never faced but would have had to face in later generations.

 

Most of the 80s guys are north of 200, but a lot of them were around the same size and men like Walcott and Layne.

You also have guys like Spinks moving between heavyweight and cruiser.

I don't think that the size factor is going to be enormously problematic in the early 80s.

In any event Marciano is bang on the cruiserweight limit, so he cam certainly move either way.

 

I used them as examples because they were smaller heavyweights during the late 80s and the 90s that were also two of the best of the time period. So a smaller heavyweight could be successful because it happened during that time. Of course they were faster but not all good or great boxers have a speed advantage because they do things to make up for it.

 

You must have meant that it would *not* be an extreme outlier today.
Consistent with the next comment that greater weight draining is essentially more common this century.
I knew you said that; but even late 2000's up to 7% was not extreme-although I am not sure what the average was.
However some new guys I believe started in higher divisions than they would have if turning pro in earlier years with the help of de/rehydration...

Come to think of it though since the CW limit was LOWER for some of the time period you spoke of, that would make Rocky more likely to compete there. Even if at his lightest he was not much over the LHW limit-although he could have started there & moved up to CW...

His prime weight & Holyfield at CW weighed almost exactly the same!

 

You meant Marciano was near (several pounds under, less early in his career), the first of the 3 weights designated for CW?

 

I dunno...There is a lot of superstitious & non-scien-terrific bias against weight training.
I do not know what you mean by blood going to the right muscles.
There are a few ways to bulk up, & lifting can effectively target certain areas-but flexibility & other capacities must be monitored.

A smaller man adding weight may be redundant muscle-he does not have the frame to benefit by getting near Tyson's size-if he even could naturally/absent PEDs.

But almost certainly he would slow down & have at least some less endurance.
You do not believe commander Vander was better heavier-& he was bigger boned & longer than Rocky.
It IS possible that 205-208 lb. Holyfield was best.

But against much bigger men-all comers in those daaaze & these-I tend to think not.
See Marciano at neat that weight, given his height & bone structure, would be effectively "heavier" than smaller HW Evander!
More muscle per square inch, & being naturally smaller I do not think HE would be better in absolute terms.

But I can see the argument for Evander either way.

 

Well he came in as high as 192 in some fights.

Is fighting at over 190lbs really going to look like a reach for a man who weighs 192?

 

I meant de and rehydrating to make weight is typically more extreme today than in the 80s and 90s

 

189 is his highest recorded weight. I think he was below 185 for most of his fights.

With that said, losing 14 lbs of water for someone his weight is nothing special today. His weight as an elite pro, which was in the 180's, is pretty typical for today's LHWs

So at LHW he would be of average size while he'd be giving up around 25 lbs in the ring at CW. I think he'd choose the former, but that's just a guess of course.

 

Weights are not really good for sports. If you bulked Marciano up with weights it would not be good. He could add enough weight by doing less road work and eating more.

You say you don’t understand why you want the blood to go to the right places in the body. If Marciano trained by sparing, bag and mitt work the blood would go mostly to places in his body that were being worked that’s what you want. The blood carries everything for building your body up. You can do weights that are fairly specific to the movements in boxing but it’s not as exact as just boxing training Sparring, bag and mitt work. running and walking are good though because they are very natural movements.

 

There were no quality big heavyweights in his era, even Nino Valdes was beaten 2X by light heavyweight champ Archie Moore and Bob Baker Kô'd by Moore
5'10 Bob Satterfield KO'd 6'3 Big Cat Williams and Kò'd Baker in 1 and beat up Valdes dropped him for a 9count in last round, but Satterfield was KO'd in 2 by Ezz Charles.

point is the superheavyweight division in the Olympics brought in and developed and cultivated big size men and men are generally bigger these days in the era of giants,
the average heavy is 6'6' these days and Ali at 6'2 would be a small man.

That being said if Marciano or Ali was born today, we really don't know how big they would be, my sons are taller than I and is usually the case these days.

If Marciano was born today without the benefits of growth techniques of this era he would probably put on more muscle and fight in the 200lb division, but his great Grandkids may be 6'6 today and 250 so we really don't know how he (Marciano) would appear.

Primo Carnera and Jess Willard Earnie Terrell and Buddy Baer were the best of the big men prior to Lennox Lewis, and all were Ko'd by men 6'2 or less so while bodies are bigger and stronger, the hardest puncher was 6"ft 200-210 Earnie Shavers according to most experts.

The size of the heavyweight's height and weight would be an obstacle to the smaller guys, even Foreman at 6'3 220lbs would be small but Great were great in their own era because the fought the best and that is written in stone.

Different times

 

It kills your stamina, though, and leaves you subject to a lot of the kinds of injuries that rehydration is suppossed to help you avoid.