the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Manny Pacquiao v Antonio Margarito (vacant jr. middleweight title)

What looked great on paper soon turned into a rout as Pac just fought a controlled in and out fight while popping Margarito with several jarring shots when turned on to 'in' mode. He fought a brilliant fight and I only gave Margarito a share of the 2nd round while awarding Manny 10-8 rounds in both the 10th and 11th round. It really should have been stopped between the 10th and 11th but it is what it is. I had it 120-107 for Pac while the official scoring - all for Pac - was 120-108, 119-109 and 118-110.

 

Paulie was in a lot of controversial fights for a reason, don't think We're the first two fans that disagreed about result of one of his fights!

Tapia was certainly boxing - since He was moving more and was more on a back foot - but in terms of defensive work (The way I saw it), Ayala was clearly superior here, more disciplined about hands positioning, with a solid, tight guard - rarely getting hit clean.
To really come to an agreement here We'd probably have to look at particular rounds We scored differently and then both re-watch them carefully and give the explanation on why We scored each of those rounds the way We did... and let's be honest, people usually aren't up for it. It becomes more of a work and aatching boxing and scoring fights is most of all for fun, after all.
Cheers!

 

I haven't watched the fight in years and never did an official round by round, but the feeling I got was that Tapia was the better man on the night and boxed beautifully.

I remember specifically in 6th round ? Right at the end of the round, Tapia does his version of Pernell Whitaker and makes Ayala look pedestrian.

Maybe I'll score it sometime in future.

 

Post your scorecards if You will - will be interesting to see how our scores differ round by round.

@scartissue is scoring a lot of Pacman fights lately, I saw "infamous" Agapito Sanchez fight so I'll add it here:

2001-11-10 Manny Pacquiao TD6 Agapito Sanchez (IBF & WBO Super Bantamweight Unification fight)
Round 1: 10:9*
Round 2: 9:10
Round 3: 10:8* (Sanchez lost a point)
Round 4: 9:9 (Sanchez lost a point)
Round 5: 10:9*
Round 6: 10:10 (Round cut short due to a cut).
Final Score: 58:55 Pacquiao

Both fighters were stepping in and out, lunging in - with Sanchez additionally ducking low a lot, what made for really messy fight. Pacquiao got cut by round 2 after clash of heads, Sanchez lost two points for dirty tactics, another clash of heads led to fight being stopped in round 6, but inbetween all of it, there was also a lot of good exchanges between the two.
Sanchez was good boxer, but I think his reputation as dirty fighter was very much warranted. Pacquiao on his side - who already made great improvements under Roach, having watched his Super Bantamweight run lately - still didn't have the skills and discipline back then to keep his range and keep his head out of the way, so even after early cut, He continued to lunge in and get his face in a way of his opponent's head.

 

Miguel Canto vs. Orlando Maldonado

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Round one, 10-9 Canto
Round two, 10-9 Canto
Round 3, 10-9 Maldonado
Round 4, 10-8 Canto, who scores a rare for him knockdown
Round five, Maldonado 10-9
Round six Canto wins by DQ...on the records it shows as a round five DQ

 

2001-08-04 Paulie Ayala SD12 Clarence Adams I (Super Bantamweight)
Round 1: 10:9*
Round 2: 10:9
Round 3: 9:10
Round 4: 9:10
Round 5: 9:10
Round 6: 9:10
Round 7: 9:10
Round 8: 9:10
Round 9: 10:9
Round 10: 10:9*
Round 11: 10:9
Round 12: 9:10
Final Score: 113:115 Adams

First of all, great fight - but even over 20 years since it happend, it made me a bit sad for Adams.
"Bones" fought his heart out in here. Ayala started better and hurt him in the second round (All 3 judges gave him the round 10:8) - but Adams got into great rhythm from round 3.
Adams was unloading with both hands and breaking through Ayala's usually very tight defence effectively. He hurt both of his hands which allowed Ayala to get back into the fight late, but in round 12 - bleeding from a cut, with both hands hurt, Adams was the one pressing and still going at it.
It just felt like Adams' night and even my close score was generous to Ayala.

 

What do the asterisks mean on your scorecards?

 

Hi,
That's how I mark up close rounds that I think could be scored either way. It gives me there range of acceptable scores at the end - like here, I think anything between 115:113 - 117:111 Adams is fine, anything outside of that I find problematic.
I try to be more on a "safe" side, meaning I always try to give judges some benefit of a doubt and don't be too self-flattering, believing that my score is the only right one.
I don't call fights robberies that often, but here I think Adams was hard done by tbh.

 

Concluding my Manny Pacquiao fixation today with his bout that began his world title collection.

Chatchai Sasakul v Manny Pac (flyweight title)

Round 1: 10-9 Sasakul
Round 2: 10-9 Sasakul
Round 3: 10-10 Even
Round 4: 10-9 Sasakul
Round 5: 10-10 Even
Round 6: 10-9 Sasakul
Round 7: 10-9 Sasakul
Round 8: Pac KOs Sasakul

Total through 7 completed rounds: 70-65 Sasakul (actual scores: 70-64, 69-64 and 68-65 all for Sasakul)

To begin, if I knew nothing about either of these fighters after 7 rounds, I would have called this a rank amateur against a slick champion. That is how VERY impressed I was with Sasakul against the 20 year old Pac. He fought a brilliant fight sharp-shooting Pac on attack, countering Pac's every wild swing and deftly side-stepping Pac's wild rushes. Pac was reduced by the 7th round to throwing haymakers. And, in the 8th round, he finally caught him with one. It was a beauty! They replayed it on a couple of different angles and one of them showed a perfect left hook to the chin when Sasakul was against the ropes. Strangely, Sasakul never got a rematch and never again appeared in a world class encounter - despite fighting regularly - until 10 years later when, at the age of 38, he challenged Cristian Mijares for his title. What a shame. I would have loved to have seen more of him on the world stage displaying those beautiful skills.

I am going to say one thing here which is not intended to start a flame war, because I am a fan of Manny's. But on normal circumstances it looks like he peaked at featherweight. The fact that he eventually moved on to jr. middleweight does suggest something more pharmaceutical involved. But a fantastic career nonetheless.

 

For some reason it's quite a regular thing with Thai champions. You'll have Japanese fighters - on contrast - getting another opportunity, usually without much work, after losing their title - while Thai fighters are often relegated to obscurity after one slip-up.
I was very impressed by Sasakul whenever I saw him also. It's been a while - but I had him beating Arbachakov on first occasion They met - so He definitely could've accomplished a lot more.

As for Manny, it's still amazing that He beat the fighter of Sasakul's caliber at that time - when He clearly wasn't particulary good at "boxing" yet, still learning the trade and making it work to a degree on sheer heart and natural talent.
I recently saw all of his fights at Super Bantamweight and He looked like a raw, developing fighter even 3-4 years later.

 

2001-11-17 Yobert Ortega KO4 Jose Rojas
Round 1: 9:10
Round 2: 9:10
Round 3: 9:10
Final Score: 27:30 Rojas

A bit obscure title fight between two Venezuelans, fighting on off TV undercard for belt vacated by Paulie Ayala.
As the stage at which the fight was fought shows, those two were not big names in quite a hot Super Bantamweight division at the time - but You could see a lot of quality in there. Both fighters were sharp, with very good mechanics and speed.
Rojas I saw as a featherweight previously, where He gave Chris John pretty difficult time with his unorthodox style. Here He also outscored Ortega early, but Yober stayed composed and after Rojas's focus began to fade a bit, Yober blasted him out with big right hook.
Fight is worth a watch even for that knock-out alone. It would be KO of the year candidate on most years.

It's second fight of Yober Ortega that I saw. In previous fight He outlasted Kozo Ishii in a war in Japan, here He dealt with tricky opponent in emphathic fashion as well.
He looked like a potential player in Super Bantamweight division. Heavy handed, precise, with good chin and conditioning. I saw Sampson Lewkowicz in his corner, so He had some connections that should've opened the door for some big fights in U.S against the likes of Ayala, Adams, or even Pacquiao - but He accepted a fight in Thailand next, against Yoddamrong Sithyodthong.
I'll watch it soon, but I'm very curious about that one right now.

 

Yuri Arbachakov v Chatchai Sasakul (flyweight title)

M, wanted to see this fight after you mentioned it. I have to preface this fight by saying that I always felt some of the most highly skilled fights I have seen were Leonard-Benitez, Cervantes-Benitez and Napoles-Lewis I. And this bout joins them. Every round was so tightly-contested with nary a hair between them. I felt like applauding several times during the contest.

Round 1: 10-10 Even
Round 2: 10-9 Sasakul
Round 3: 10-9 Yuri
Round 4: 10-10 Even
Round 5: 10-9 Sasakul
Round 6: 10-9 Sasakul
Round 7: 10-9 Yuri
Round 8: 10-10 Even
Round 9: 10-9 Sasakul
Round 10: 10-9 Sasakul
Round 11: 10-9 Yuri
Round 12: 10-9 Yuri

Total: 116-115 Sasakul (actual scores: 116-114, 116-112 and 117-113 all for Yuri)

I can't gripe about the scores because it's like I said, a hair between them each round. Yuri the harder puncher and Sasakul the more skilled. One has to stay riveted to see the slightest nuance between these two. This was as good a draw as one could see, but it is what it is with the scores. I will also say each round was over before I knew it, which was how entranced I was. I always said the best pure boxers I've ever seen were Willie Pep, Lionel Rose and Albert Davila. But Sasakul joins them. He was also an amazing counter-puncher. Clearly I'm very impressed with what I've seen. @Flea Man ,who used to post here regularly, was well versed in Thai fighters. I'd love to hear what he thought of Sasakul. Again, I loved this contest and I will be reviewing the rematch.

 

Happy to hear Your found it interesting. I also remember it as beautiful techncial contest, although it's been good 10 years since I saw it so details escape me.
I was big Arbachakov fan and it was fascinating to see how Chatchai threw him off and limited him in some ways. I heard Yuri had hand issues at the time already, but one way or the other - He was still excellent champion.

Funny You mentioned @Flea Man , as I was also reading a lot of what He had to say about Thai fighters back in a day and certainly learned a lot from him.

 

Yeah and Ford is (or was, is he still alive?) from Guyana

If you can call it a golden era, this was it for Guyana as they had him and Terrence Alli.

 

Just prior to that I thought Patrick Ford was absolutely awesome in his bid for Salvador Sanchez' title. So, yeah, the notables from Guyana of the era.