Anthony Joshua vs Deontay Wilder: What is going on?

He’s just turned down 2 shots at the title in the last 9 months.

 

This content is protected

 

This content is protected

 

DAZN have so far lost a fortune on AJ, so there will be pressure to make a profitable fight. AJ sees himself as a box-puncher so likely reckons Wilder to be more beatable than Fury but in the same ballpark for revenue.

 

Fink
Exposing the pbc and wbc monopoly
Making other fighters fight through fire
Whilst pbcwbc fighters pick and choose and email for rankings and belts
The wbc as shown just how corrupt it is

 

There's been something unusual since day one about these rumours.

Initially leaked by Simon Jordan afaik in April, it was talk of a tournament with Fury v Usyk, and Joshua v Wilder in December, then a final of winner v winner in 2024.

On the Joshua v Wilder side, all parties have expressed their interest. Joshua wants it, Hearn has said they're ready to sign, Wilder has said he hopes it happens. Yet it's five months later and (from what Hearn says - on this I'm inclined to believe him because it's Joshua's only route to a world level bout) they've not had a formal contract offer yet. For them all to say this, there's no way they haven't verbally agreed purses.

The Saudis aren't idiots, but you'd think they were based on what's happened so far. IMHO there's a few possibilities:

i) Simon Jordan's rumour was wrong - it was an idea with no firm timescales, and was brought into the public eye too early
ii) Skills Challenge have the plan verbally agreed, but can't get the funds signed off from PIF to send contracts (would be embarrassing)
iii) The Saudis only want this event as part of a wider festival or similar that isn't in place yet, hence the stalling (Fury - Ngannou is part of "Riyadh Season 2023", Ruiz-Joshua 2 was part of "Diriyah Season")

I'm leaning towards option 3. Unfortunately I think this means it won't happen this year, and we'll see Joshua head back to the USA for a scrap against a top 20 heavyweight.

 

You’re right with option 3. When Joshua fought Ruiz it was part of ‘Diriyah Season’ as you said and there was concerts and music festivals going on that week with big names there. The Fury fight is part of the 'Winter Wonderland' launch where they'll have their much more expensive equivalent to London's Hyde Park and where they'll host WWE the week after and various other events.

They’re not just going to part with hundreds of millions for one fight when nothing else is happening that week.

 

and also a non title fight

 

Option 4, Big Dan was actually the one fronting a lot of the costs, and no one can now get hold of him because he's moving to a new appartment every 4 hours.

 

After the Ruiz humiliation I’d be shocked to see him fight in the States.

 

I don't see what other option there is for a December fight, do you?

At the O2 again against only a Top 20 fighter, it wouldn't sell well. The Helenius booing will have really damaged his brand and they can't afford a re-occurrence. I can't imagine them taking Joshua to the Middle East, e.g. Abu Dhabi, if they're negotiating with Saudi for Wilder.

No way Matchroom will take him to Spain, Italy, or Australia.

Only leaves the USA as a meaningful option. Quite who the opponent would be though is another question. Cusumano might have been a good low risk opponent in a New York / DC event as a brandbuilder, however…

 

Well, I am less interested in the location and who bankrolls it, than I am just getting the fight over the line.

For the purposes of my argument, I am happy to assume it has always been Joshua's side blocking the fight with Wilder and blocking the fight with Fury. Let's go with, Wilder and Fury have just done a very bad job of exposing Joshua. People have been fooled by Joshua's side arguing that it has always been the other way around and that they do indeed want to make the fights. Joshua especially wanting to make the fight against Fury because the title would be on the line. etc. etc. Okay, so, let's assume all that is true. Well, it would have been very easy for Wilder to call that bluff, by winning the Ruiz fight then challenging Joshua with the very public carrot of the WBC mandatory shot at Fury as I explained.

But okay, regarding your argument of Wilder primarily being a prize fighter, I still think there are good enough reasons why Wilder should have fought Ruiz Jr.

1) An African American fighter against a Mexican American fighter (both two recent heavyweight world champions) would have sold PPVs by the boat load. I think we would be undervaluing that fight to say Wilder would be only looking at 5-10 million. Though granted it is not 40-50 million. But that isn't guaranteed either.

2) Wilder still talks like Fury cheated him, so surely he still wants to avenge his losses... Wilder has no other present way to make a Fury fight except by becoming his mandatory. That fight would still likely sell. And what is Fury going to do? Drop the belt? If history tells us anything, then we already know the WBC will always side with Wilder. Then we get Undisputed between Wilder and Usyk. Another big pay day for him.

3) Having a win over Ruiz Jr. would massively help to sell the potential Joshua fight, too. Which let's face it is going a bit stale. So I am sure that would appeal more to the Saudi backers than at present where it is a fight between one very inactive fighter and one who many say has lost his mojo.

4) IF Wilder only has eyes for Joshua, then dangling the WBC mandatory position in front of Joshua, would force Joshua to fight or completely lose face. There would be no way to spin that. What is Joshua going to say? That he doesn't actually want to guarantee a fight with Fury for the title. He would become a laughing stock. Suddenly, everyone would blame him 100% for the previous Wilder fights not happening AND for the previous Fury fights not happening (@BigDoofus). His value as a boxing commodity would tumble as he would lose fans by the shed load. Therefore, he would have no choice but to fight Wilder, and if he won pursue the WBC mandatory shot against Fury.​

Which is why Ruiz Jr. seemed like an obvious fight for Wilder, unless he doesn't want the risk, and just wants to sit on his hands waiting for the Joshua payday. i.e. he is waiting to cash out.

To me, it very much looks like that is Wilder's plan.

But right now, if the fight doesn't happen it will be very very easy for Hearn to point to Wilder's side and say he didn't want it. "He is inactive, he didn't want Ruiz, so of course he doesn't want Joshua." Or something to that effect. And you know what, I'm going to have zero sympathy for Wilder if that happens.

 

Wilder - Ruiz was a fight I was looking forward to and would have helped to answer a lot of questions in the division.
As you’ve already stated there’s no reason whatsoever for us not getting that fight given the promotion is shared and the WBC made a big statement about the 4 some tournament etc.

 

It could be because AJ didn't have a 'proper warmup' match as Whyte pulled out, so he fought Helenius instead. Or maybe that is the narrative Hearn would want us to believe.