Mount Rushmore of HW punchers

Lewis Wilder Wlad Tyson are the best punchers.
Knocked out the best opponents with the least amount of punchers.
You can exchange wlad or Wilder for foreman because he knocked out better fighters but hes more of a hard clubbing puncher than an effective 1 punch lights out guy.

Shavers deserves a mention but was far too inconsistent in delivering his power at top level.
IMO only
Former titleholders deserve to be in the discussion, otherwise you'll end up comparing a bunch of obscure contenders across different eras with wildly different opposition.
So im leaving guys like ruddock tua morrison williams etc out as well

 

Well if we're looking at "math", Foreman stopped Wepner faster than Liston did with far less experience. Foreman also has a higher KO%.

I do agree Liston is underrated, but idk about top 4 of all time that seems a tad high. Did Liston ever stop a fighter as durable as Chuvalo or as good as Frazier?

 

Wilder, Wlad, Liston, Foreman.

 

Shavers nowhere near the top 5.

 

I do not question Wilder's power whatsoever, and I agree there was some dubious officiating in all 3 Fury bouts.

The only thing I question is his quality of opposition. Who was the most durable guys he stopped, Ortiz? Arreola? His resume isn't particularly deep. So sure you can bring up the fact the much larger Fury is the only boxer he failed to stop, but I can't see many of his other opponents going the distance with Foreman, Wladmir, etc they just weren't that great. That's why I said he may be on the Rushmore based on raw power alone, but to truly belong there we need to see him fight other quality opponents such as Ruiz, Joshua, etc.

 

me also!

Louis, Foreman, Liston, Tyson best allround punchers for me!

Louis: best punch selection, best finisher, most accurate, best timing, most effortless puncher (short and crisp punches from the shoulder)
Foreman: the strongest!, Power in every hand with any shot, from any stance and distance
Liston: Just a complete boxer puncher, also power with any shot
Tyson: most explosive, most vicious combinations, best body puncher, best overall speed

 

I understand. I hope he finishes up with just the top guys.

But everyone should go back and look at who went the distance or actually beat guys like Shavers, Foreman, Wlad, Tyson, etc., before just dismissing the quality of Wilder's opposition.

Given that they couldn't manage to stop - or in some cases even beat - some fairly low-level guys like Ron Stander, Mariusz Wach, Ross Puritty, Bigfoot Martin, Kevin McBride, Danny Williams, Quick Tillis, Bob Stallings, Stan Johnson, Vicente Rondon, Walter Santemore, Roberto Davila, Levi Forte, Crawford Grimsley ... and on and on ... is more telling to me when discussing punching power.

I'm sure quite a few of Wilder's opponents not only would've gone the distance with any number of the punchers on the list above but, given who some of those big punchers actually lost to, some Wilder faced probably would've upset some of them as well. (Because it isn't like all the punchers on that list went undefeated, or knocked everyone out, or weren't upset themselves.)

Wilder knocked out all his Levi Fortes and Ross Purittys and Bob Stallings ... he certainly didn't lose to any of them. The same can't be said for ANYONE else on the list above.

Hell, does anyone on the list above knock out Tyson Fury? Because he's the only guy Wilder didn't stop.

I'll put Wilder's inability to stop Tyson Fury against Shavers failing to stop or even beat Bob Stallings and Ron Stander, or Foreman failing to stop Alex Stewart and Levi Forte, any day.

No one on that list only failed to stop one guy - who was also a world champion ... and the biggest lineal world champion in history, at that.

And no one on the list was outweighed by everyone he faced for the last 11 years of his career (and counting).

People seem to cut a lot of slack for punchers from yesteryear who not only couldn't stop some pretty ordinary fighters, but lost to some of them as well. Even when they had the weight advantage.

Maybe it'll even out when Wilder retires. More people have been grudgingly coming around as of late.

 

Foreman stopped Wepner via cuts just like Liston, except Wepner's face wasn't nearly as bad. The only thing this proves is that Wepner had a far more generous ref against Foreman than he did against Liston.

Also who stopped an opponent faster, is hardly indicative of anything.

Ali stopped Quarry faster the first time than Frazier did in two tries.

He also dropped and stopped Bonavena which Frazier was unable to do.

That's one way of saying it. Liston was somewhere in his 40s (likely late 40s) when he fought Wepner whereas Foreman was a young man. Wepner also said Liston hit "so much harder" than Foreman.

Foreman also fought a lot more gimmes earlier in his career than Liston who was basically thrown to the wolves early in a sink or swim scenario.

Liston only knocked out two of his first 9 opponents, which accounts for his relatively "low" KO percentage, when compared to Foreman. Had he fought the pushovers that Foreman and Shavers record are scattered with at the beginning of his career, I think his KO percentage would be considerably higher.

Did Wilder? or Wlad?

 

My ten would be (in no order) of HARDEST punchers would be; Cleveland Williams, Deontay Wilder, George Foreman, Sonny Liston, Earnie Shavers, Max Baer, Lennox Lewis, Wladimir Klitschko, Razor Ruddock, Gerry Cooney.

Ranking them in order of overall better punchers (of which their are several not on this list, who were overall greater punchers but inferior in terms of power).

10. Max Baer
9. Earnie Shavers
8. Gerry Cooney
7. Razor Ruddock
6. Cleveland Williams
5. Deontay Wilder
4. Wladimir Klitschko
3. George Foreman
2. Lennox Lewis
1. Sonny Liston.

 

Stopping someone faster can have just as much weight as a quote from a fighter, if not more weight.

Bundu was dropped and went the distance with Thurman, but was brutally KO'd by Spence. Guess who he said hit harder?

Well Holyfield said an old fat Foreman hit harder than Lewis, Bowe, Mercer, etc. You're telling me Liston>>>Prime Foreman>>>Old Foreman>>>90's sluggers? yeah, I don't buy it.

Yeah but when Foreman stepped up his opponents were higher quality than Liston. Frazier+Lyle+Norton+Chuvalo+Peralta>>>Patterson+Williams+Machen+Valdez+Folley if we're comparing the durability and overall quality of their best opponents. I think Liston beat more ranked contenders, but his opponents were also a little bit easier to stop and smaller on average.

Not really but they make up for it with quantity over quality.

Wlad stopping Peter is a good display of power, if nothing else he was a pretty tough and strong slugger in his prime.

 

Liston and Foreman both fought contenders who were smaller and easier to stop on average.

Gregorio Peralta was a light heavyweight until the end of his career. He went nearly 20 rounds with George. Marty Marshall was a light heavyweight and beat Liston. Leotis Martin knocked Liston cold and Martin didn't even weigh 200 pounds.

Floyd Patterson (who Liston beat for his title) was likely the smallest heavyweight champion in the last 70 years. (Leon Spinks may have been the second-smallest world champ). Joe Frazier (who Foreman beat for the title) may have been the third smallest. Yes, you could probably say Roy Jones and his one night against Ruiz was smaller, but my point being they were on the really small side.

Patterson was down more times than any heavyweight champ in history - at least 20. Frazier was down 11 times. Foreman regained the title from Moorer, another former light heavyweight. Moorer was down at least 11 times in his career.

Deontay Wilder wasn't fighting the smallest contenders, former light heavyweight champs and the smallest heavyweight titleholders in history.

He was fighting THE BIGGEST in history, and he wasn't any heavier than Liston for the most part.

Everyone Wilder faced in the last 11 years and counting of his career outweighed him ... usually significantly ... and he knocked them all out but Fury ... who is the largest world (not alphabet but world) heavyweight champion in history.

Some consideration should be made for guys like Wilder who wasted bigger fighters all the time. I believe Deontay's last three first-round knockouts came over Helenius (who outweighed him by 40 pounds), Breazeale (who outweighed him by 32 pounds) and Stiverne (who outweighed him by 34 pounds).

While the old timers tended to go the distance or lose to guys (Liston included) who weren't any bigger than Joe Smith Jr.

 

DuPlooy did fight for a world title but it was when the WBO was beginning and was not considered a serious title...

 

I feel weird arguing about these guys because I like all of them. And they all hit really hard.

I just feel Wilder by far hit the hardest and gave up more weight while doing so than all of them did.

I mean, Wlad couldn't stop cruiserweight David Haye with his broken toe which was supposedly so bad he couldn't push off on it. How does the best puncher ever not stop a cruiserweight in that condition? Or not stop Ross Puritty (or even beat him)? Or not stop Bryant Jennings (who wasn't Mr. Steel Chin)? Or not stop Davarryl Williamson? Or Mariusz Wach?

I'm starting from the premise that the biggest punchers in history should be able to stop just about everyone.

And, if they don't, who didn't they stop and why?

If a guy has never been stopped before, outweighs YOU by 40+ pounds, has height and reach on you, and is an undefeated World Champion ... and you still put him down four times ... that's still pretty good even if you don't get a KO.

If the guy is a no-name journeyman who you have every physical advantage over and other guys stopped ... and you not only don't put him down but you lose ... that's a big check mark against.