the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

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Great fight. I had Pedroza ahead 116-112 over a very competitive Patrick Ford!

 

I have watched this fight a few times but never watched it all the way through. You mentioned round 15 being the best round. Would you say the fight got better down the stretch? I seem to remember Ali laying back a lot trying to rope a dope and Spinks just working him over and hitting what and where he could land. Did Ali turn it up later?

 

I don’t remember the other later rounds but in the 15th Ali sold all out for the KO, knowing he was behind. And Leon matched him. It’s a great round, the last great round Ali fought.

Leon’s game plan for the rope-a-dope was pretty interesting and effective: When Ali covered up, he started pounding on his arms — particularly the top of the shoulders. The idea being to sap Ali’s snap, so to speak, and take away his ability to rally and steal rounds or have much left to work with as the fight went on.

It’s a heck of a lot smarter than hitting gloves and having Ali peak behind them and laugh and wave him in and cover up again. And it worked.

The second fight was a travesty. Everybody seemed to have a piece of Leon — he would disappear from training camp (and go get drunk) just to get away from the fighting and squabbling among his camp. The various trainers (I can’t remember if it was three or four) came up with a compromise to rotate who would talk to him between round — so the guy who had the corner after the first round wouldn’t be back until the fourth or fifth.

 

2002-02-23 Paulie Ayala UD12 Clarence Adams II (Super Bantamweight)
Round 1: 9:10*
Round 2: 10:9
Round 3: 10:9*
Round 4: 10:9
Round 5: 10:9*
Round 6: 9:10*
Round 7: 9:10
Round 8: 10:9*
Round 9: 9:10*
Round 10: 10:9
Round 11: 10:9
Round 12: 10:9
Final Score: 116:112 Ayala

Rematch for first controversial fight, which I felt Adams won pretty clearly.
This fight was a bit more technical, while still entertaining, fought in good pace and with some good exchanges. It's hard to really pin-down what adjustments Ayala made that allowed him to be more in control this time, since it was similar type of fight, but what He talked about was using his jab more and working on his strength in preparation.
I felt fight was still in balance before championship rounds, but Paulie was the one who finished stronger and separated himself late. Difficult to say if it was his superior preparation this time around, or maybe Bones slipping up from their first contest which made the difference.

 

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Good fight, dont miss it! Davis surprisingly turned into Roberto Duran! (who was mentioned through as his fight with Davey Moore was the next day)

Also, boxing on Wednesday nights on CBS! Hmnnnn

 

Felix Trinidad vs Fernando Vargas

Excellent fight by two fighters who I never rated as highly as some but both had a ton of guts and heart. Must have been thrilling on the night to see Vargas battle his way back after the disastrous first round. Sadly it was tainted by the low blows and debate will always rage over how "accidental" they were. Also the idiotic refereeing with points flying off left and right destroyed some of the momentum. But even without these I still see Trinidad winning but probably by decision. I feel round 1 was key for the rest of the fight as whatever game plan Vargas had went out the window and he was forced to walk through punches to try and overcome a huge set back. The moments when he used his excellent boxing skills and jab showed how an alternate version of this fight could have played out. I also suspect some macho pride played a part in Vargas' chosing to slug with Felix. Interestingly I felt Fernando looked much bigger and stronger than the stick thin Tito but was simply out sped and out punched. Vargas' flaws were lack of head movement, too wide a stance and lack of variety in his punches. Tito was not the most varied stylist either but could just beat Vargas to the punch and every time he landed he shook him.

1- Trinidad 10 Vargas 7

2 - Trinidad 10 Vargas 9

3 - Trinidad 10 Vargas 9

4 - Trinidad 7 Vargas 10

5 - Trinidad 9 Vargas 10

6 - Trinidad 10 Vargas 10

7 - Trinidad 9 Vargas 9

8 - Trinidad 10 Vargas 9

9 - Trinidad 10 Vargas 9

10 - Trinidad 10 Vargas 8

11 - Trinidad 10 Vargas 9

12 - Trinidad wins KO

Trinidad 105 Fernando Vargas 99

 

Oscar De La Hoya vs Fernando Vargas

A better fight than the Trinidad match IMO due to the superior boxing and overall skill level, plus more consistent action. Vargas looked a much more mature fighter in this fight than against Tito, but he had a much better start to this fight of course! For the first 2 minutes Oscar looked in another class but Fernando managed to impose his brawny frame on him and from then on it became a see sawing battle. I suspect Oscar's time out of the ring meant he took some time to relax, however Fernando has also had a year out before this. As with the Tito fight the key was speed and accuracy. I felt Vargas didn't show Oscar's punch as much respect as he should of. He took some heavy shots early than I feel slowed him down later on. Oscar isn't Julian Jackson but his punches are so sharp and well timed that to feel you can walk through him is madness. Vargas did show patience as the fight developed and was more varied in his attack, throwing bunches of punches rather than a single KO shot. However his accuracy was lacking.

I find fighters like Vargas intriguing, those who are achingly close to being great. Just a bit more accuracy, a slightly harder punch, a bit more head movement, a dash more discipline. The problem was both Tito and Oscar were superior in all these areas and even a small advantage can make a huge difference, especially if it is spread over a few key areas of skill.

The fight was always exciting as you could never count Fernando out. As Oscar swept the middle rounds then Vargas came back hard in round 9. Maybe Oscar was taking a break as he turned it around again and I was actually surprised at how Fernando folded as a few rounds earlier it looked like going the full 12. As I said I feel those early shots took there toll on him as they closed into the home stretch.

Say what you like about Vargas but the dude was sure in a lot of excellent fights. I also feel this maybe ODLH's best performance considering his long break and his younger seemingly stronger opponent. I sort of wish Oscar had quite after this peak.

1 - De La Hoya 9 Vargas 10

2 - De La Hoya 10 Vargas 9

3 - De La Hoya 9 Vargas 10

4- De La Hoya 10 Vargas 9

5 - De La Hoya 9 Vargas 10

6 - De La Hoya 10 Vargas 9

7- De La Hoya 10 Vargas 9

8 - De La Hoya 10 Vargas 9

9 - De La Hoya 9 Vargas 10

10 - De La Hoya 10 Vargas 9

11 - De La Hoya wins KO

De La Hoya 96 Vargas 94

 

Interesting takes on both fights, @Blofeld, particularly the view that De La Hoya-Vargas was the better fight. I can’t see that myself.

I take your points about Trinidad and his lack of head movement plus the low blows but I think you’re selling him short a bit.

Yes, he was arguably one dimensional… but what a dimension. The thing he was great at was imposing his will on an opponent. Vargas was the cuter fighter defensively and showed a tremendously level head when he was under fire but Tito was relentless. And I think this fight, irrespective of the point deductions and low blows, was always going to end inside the distance.

I feel Tito pretty much took Vargas’s prime that night and, even though Fernando put in a good performance against DLH, he wasn’t quite the same fighter.

Tito’s win was bigger and better in my view and the fight was better too.

Just my two cents.

 

Great post

I just watched that 15th and it's one for the books maybe as good as the Holmes vs Norton finale

Lotta Great last stand finals by champions win or lose like Chavez Sr over Taylor or Chavez Jr going all out vs maravilla, froch coming back on Taylor

Just seeing over the hill Ali after 42 minutes of fighting put together that rally, I don't think enough people appreciate that grit

 

Very interesting response as always and excellent points!

 

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Four observations:
I had Camacho ahead, 40-35. Limon was shot, anyone in the top five could have beaten him. This fight was like Holmes-Ali and Trinidad-Whitaker. Limon was going for the home-run shot.

 

And watching Camacho-Limon made me wonder about Ken Whetstone, and I found this:

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Round one 10-9 Price
Round two 10-9 Whetstone
Round three 10-9 Price
Round four..do I really want to spoil the result in this case? lol

 

Have to disagree with you there. Limon was coming off of an absolute march-through-hell war with Bobby Chacon some eight months before — sufficient time to recover from Ring’s fight of the year. He may have been a bit past prime but he was a warrior and still had something left in the tank.

Camacho at 130 was a force of nature. And for slow-footed, plodding, load-up-on-his-punches Limon, a terrible, terrible style matchup. The wars had caught up with him, but Hector at this stage was (though different stylistically) about as close to Roy Jr as a freak of nature as you could find.

 

What I really feel about Limon at this point is that he lost what he had left in that last Chacon fight. Chacon himself lost a lot in that fight also and in his rematch with Boza Edwards..

And Camacho of course, well, he was still on his way up so yeah it was truly a bad match up for Limon as well!!

 

Agreed.

Never understood how and why Limon's management took the fight. Camacho at that time was really something and he literally had a speed advantage of 3x. Maybe even higher with his footwork which is hard to believe. You knew his last outing was going to take a lot of Bazooka. there are only so many tough brawls a guy can have. And Limon got beat to the punch more than any fighter I ever saw. Somehow, he took a lot of them from guys like Arguello even. As is often the case in boxing, getting beat to the punch is usually a tko or ko or knockdown.

My guess is they didn't want another war. And there certainly were guys in that division at that time capable of providing one. What a tough time to be in that weightclass. And, they fought each other. But losing to Camacho would not have been a big big battle type fight so I think that was the rationale at that time. I thought they were nuts at that time to sign to fight a prime Camacho. Hector has not stood the test of time that well but what a force and a real pleasure to see live at that time. Fastest hands I have ever seen.

But that Limon---fight anyone. Anytime. Anywhere. Man---what champion does that anymore? A haley's comet.