Is Sonny Liston A Top Ten HW ATG?

Yeah, seems like it was very much a fight that could have gone either way.

 

We weren't talking about the rematch.

We're talking about if someone could've gone 3 years being fairly inactive with only 3 rounds of action and then having to defend their title against a prime Ali. Replacing Liston and living out his lifestyle (I won't even bring up Liston drinking and golfing). Oh and the fighter needs to be in his 30's with some sort of injury such as having shoulder problems. Which fighters beat Ali under those conditions?

 

Plenty of fighters don't stay on the floor for 10 seconds...get to one knee ... then topple over again when the official counting for the knockdowns who is banging on the ring apron reaches 10.

It was a terrible performance by Liston.

Arguably the worst ever by a heavyweight challenger. I can't think of a more feeble attempt to win EVER.

It's been nearly 60 years. People can stop making excuses for him .

The second "fall down" when his opponent was all the way across the ring out of view. ... 10 seconds after he'd already gone down ... was even more pathetic than the first "fall down."

Enough of the Liston worship.

He was absolutely pathetic in Maine.

 

This wasn't an attempt to win the title, it was a fixed fight period.

 

That would require actual evidence of a fix.

 

You keep ignoring the irregular/illegal conduct and behaviours going on AROUND Liston = relevant CONTEXT.

I’ve already addressed ALL your points and, additionally, the significant context you’ve persistently omitted.

Where applicable - I’ve provided specific and solid refutes.

I’ve just read you repeat yourself again without converging on any counter points or duly acknowledging CONTEXT in any way, shape or form.

Your analysis of Liston is slanted, treating him AS IF he was all alone in there, inside a vacuum.

 

Oh geez! you'd have to watch a Madonna movie to see a worse acting job, please!

 

hes certainly knocking around it. I have no argument with anyone who suggests just inside or just outside but thats the limit. No more than a top 7/8 and no less than a top 12/13

 

He very well could be top 10 or just outside of it

 

Exactly the way I see it

 

Sonny Liston is definitely in my aii-time top 10 heavyweights.When I first became a boxing-fan
Sonny was comfortably in my all-time top 5 but the emegence of other ATGs such as Larry Holmes
and Lennox Lewis has moved Sonny into the top 6 to 10 group.

 

You could make the case for a top ten spot, and you could make the case against it.

Let's just say that he probably does better on a head to head list, than he does on a legacy one.

 

Just a reminder for all of those who say that Marciano can't be included as a great because he didn't beat modern-heavies, and then turn around and oversell Sonny...a comparison of the size of Sonny's best opponents with current champ Usyk's...




USYK'S BEST OPPONENTS
Glowacki- 6'0", 199, WBO Cruiser Champ
Mchunu- 5'11", 198.5, #12 WBO, #14 IBF
Hunter- 6'2", #9 WBO Cruiser
Huck- 6'2", 198, #9 WBO, former champ
Briedis- 6'1", 199, WBC Cruiser Champ
Gassiev- 6'3.5", 198, IBF/WBA Cruiser Champ
Bellew- 6'3", 199, #1 WBO, , #4 WBA cruiser, former champ
Chisora- 6'1.5", 255.5, #8 WBO, #10 IBF, #11 WBA, all at heavyweight
Joshua- 6'6", 240 IBF/WBA/WBO Heavyweight Champ
Joshua- 6'6, 244.5, #4 WBO, #4 IBF #4WBA, Former Champion
Dubois- 6'5", 233, #8 WBO Heavweight (and mando somehow)
Fury-- 6'9", 262, WBC Heavyweight Champ
Fury- 6'9", 281, #1 WBC

LISTON'S BEST
Patterson- 6'0", 189, World Champion
Patterson- 6'0", 194, #1 NBA contender
Foley- 6'1",198.5, #3 NBA contender, #1 Ring Magazine
Williams- 6'2", 215.5 Unranked
Willlams- 6'2", 210, # NBA 10 contender
Machon- 6'0", 196, #2 NBA Contender, #3 Ranked Ring Magazine
Valdez- 6'3", 211, #2 Ring Magazine
Summerline 6'1", 201, Unranked
Summerline 6'1", 206, Unranked
Marshall, 6'0.5", 18, Unranked
Marshall, 6'0.5", 179, "Honorable Mention" at LHW
Wepner, 6'5", 228, Unranked
Clark, 6'3", 215, #5 NBA contender
Rischer, not listed, 200, Unranked
Bethea, 6'0", 204, #8 Ring magazine
Westphal, 5'7.5", 195, Unranked
Besmanoff, 5'11", 201, Unranked
Harris, 6'0", 195, #6 NBA, #7 Ring Magazine
Dejohn, 6'2.5", 202, #9 ranked NBA, #8 Ranked Ring Magazine

 

Lean towards yes. Only his poor performances against Ali hurt his legacy. So much oddness surrounding the fights