Who was the greatest trainer in boxing history?

Eddie Futch

 

Hiawatha Grey needs mentioning maybe, He had a part in Moore and Burley I’ve read.

 

Charley Goldman, turning a short in weight, height and reach Marciano who started boxing late and was certainly clumsy, into the dominant heavyweight champion of the world was quite a feat.

Rocky of course had innate qualities which aided his rise to the pinnacle of our sport, though reading of the Queensbery rules were not one of them.

So i give a shout out for Mr Goldman to stand tall........ok to his full 5'1 height.

 

Marciano was clearly the type athlete who would respond to a coach who could look him in the eye. The other trainers saw his oafish style and looked down on him, but not Charley.

 

Absolutely Charley looked up to Rocky, quite literally.

 

Ray Arcel

 

Hi guys.
All the above, and more thinking although we can sometimes agree that a certain fighter might be the the greatest at their respective weight,like maybe SRR. Duran, Armstrong, Pep, etc, the best trainer seems hard to pindown, I personally don't believe that one, or any trainer stands out above any other, the names mentioned were all good/great you could throw in for good measure, Roach, Bimstein, Steward, and a few more besides, it's a very subjective topic.
stay safe guys.

 

It’s often about the right fit.

Not only can the trainer find the right style and such for the fighter, but can he communicate it and make the fighter comfortable with it. Maybe a bunch of people would have had Joe Frazier fight like Joe Frazier, but Yank Durham GOT him to fight like Joe Frazier. Kevin Rooney was good for Tyson but that doesn’t mean he’d be good for Larry Holmes or Lennox Lewis, etc. It has to be a good fit.

Then also, there’s more to it than that. I’d say Eddie Futch is about the best I’ve ever seen at drawing up and instructing a game plan. Don Turner’s plan for Holyfield vs Tyson, and how he ‘installed it,’ was perfect — gaining leverage by putting his left knee between Tyson’s legs, taking advantage of how Tyson would square up so he could push him back, but he also had 30-second sparring sessions where they’d ring the bell and have the sparring partner come out like a house afire throwing bombs to get Holy ready for how Tyson would come at him (I remember reading that they were worried until about 2 weeks before the fight when Evander finally totally adjusted to that … before that he’d get caught with one or two punches and in a real fight with Tyson that might mean the fight is over or well onto its way to being over).

Dundee was a master cornerman who seemed to know just which buttons to push. He was a great calming voice but could also motivate and inspire when needed.

Some others are better at taking away their fighters’ weaknesses or accentuating their positive. Manny Stewart was a great offense coach. Etc.

I’m not sure any trainer would grade 100 out of 100 on every possible skill set a trainer needs to have. Some are better in one area but not as good as others. But all great trainers ultimately have to be great communicators … if they can’t get the fighter to understand and then execute, doesn’t matter how great their ideas are.

 

Probably Futch, Arcel or Steward. If no one has picked Stweard yet, I will.

 

Just imagine if cus was 40 when he met Mike, not 70 give or take. Even younger, even. Also maybe I'm off on his late age, but you get my point right lol? Just like what if he existed like a teddy atlas? Not instead, that would just be wicked thinking but I mean it with sincerity.

 

Emanuel Steward.

The man trained 41 world champions throughout his career.

 

I don’t see it working out like you seem to think it would have.

Cus was gone right around the end of Tyson’s ‘childhood’ stage. My observation of human nature is not that their relationship would have continued as it was (kindly old grandfather figure who plucked him off the streets/out of jail to steer him into a new life of sunshine and rainbows, happy evermore) but that Tyson would have rebelled.

He, like most young people, rebelled against the authority figures that were left in his life when he hit the summit — Kevin Rooney, Bill Cayton, etc. You notice he didn’t stay Upstate living in Cus’ old home … he became a grown man. A grown man who was heavyweight champion of the world, rich beyond all of his belief, with people (usually not of the kind who had his interests at heart) whispering in his year. He got married. He was calling his own shots, and all those people from his boxing upcoming like Rooney were there at his beck and call — he was the moneymaker, they were living off what he produced. The power dynamic had shifted, and it would have had Cus still been alive.

To me it’s fairly predictable that he would have rebelled against Cus too. He would have gone out on a late-night shopping spree (these were reported in the New York press almost daily at his height) and thrown around thousand dollar bills on jewelry and cars or whatever … and eventually Cus would have tried to reign him in … and that’s when the friction would start. No old man was going to tell him how to spend HIS money. Or tell him to stop dating the woman he ended up marrying (they call it puppy love for a reason) or even talk about his marriage and private life … and Cus would have felt his control slipping away and when he tried to do something about it, there would have been issues. I can’t see it ending well. Rooney was told not to talk about his marriage to the press and Kevin stupidly made a comment or two about his employer’s private life and Kevin was fired.

Imagine if Cus was younger when he had Floyd Patterson. Oh wait, he was. And Floyd eventually left him.

I don’t think there’s a fairytale world where Mike Tyson lives like a chaste monk in some house in the middle of nowhere watching old fight films every night, with his guru telling him what to do and Mike just doing it … not after that power had shifted. He had to best that power, like every young person does when they grow up enough to taste freedom and make their own choices.

 

Imo it comes down to 2 trainers.
Cus D'Amato had 3 world champions.
Emanuel Steward had 41 world champions.

Who wins and why? Ill answer that...
Cus D'Amato wins!
Why? Because none of Manny's 41 champions were Mike Tyson.

And for the record Im not a Tyson fan.