What is an ATG + Zhang discussion

"Holmes schooled Ali"

No context about Ali's Parkinsons or the fact he was completely shot at this point and shouldn't of been anywhere near a boxing ring.

"Tyson has stylistic advantages vs Ali"

Like what ? Tyson struggled against a poor mans version of Ali in Tillis, theres arguments for both fighters and alot of Heavyweights would lose to a prime Mike Tyson hes H2H rated as one of the best ever.

"Ali may of lost to Moorer"

And Ali more than likely would've beat Moorer aswell so what's your point ? I can easily counter that statement by saying the complete opposite to you what's your evidence ?

Ali is a far greater Heavyweight than Moorer which is a fact, with much better attributes overall which is also a fact. So I would think logically Ali would be favoured over Moorer.

"Marciano & Louis"

Louis is rated highly H2H Marciano not so much because he was a Cruiserweight by today's standards with a short reach and only being 5'10. But if you're pitting Marciano against similar sized Heavyweights or Cruiserweights then he still rates highly H2H. For example Cruiserweight division didn't exist when Marciano was fighting, so if he was fighting in a era where it did exist then he would rate highly H2H.

"Achievements and H2H ability"

I think H2H ability is somewhat relevant when discussing a fighter. For example RJJ, Tyson, are rated very highly based on their H2H ability at their best.

But again we have been discussing Muhammad Ali and regarding his size and overall ability, I still don't understand why you think he can't compete in modern era ? When two 40 year olds from 70s in Holmes and Foreman did. And the fact Heavyweights of similar size to Ali and in some cases smaller have competed very well in modern era.

As for Zhang again you're basing his whole H2H ability for beating a 15-0 Joe Joyce who was slow with no defence. Zhang has faced two top 10 Heavyweights and only beat one of them, his whole career before that was unremarkable and he also got a draw against the unremarkable "Jerry Forrest".

How about we wait until Zhang fights 1 or 2 more top 10 Heavyweights then have an opinion on him ? What will you say if Usyk schools Zhang 12-0 ? or Joshua beats him up like he did in the Amateurs ? Maybe your outlook would change how you perceive him.

 

Is weight manipulation really ruining boxing? Other than Loma, Usyk and possibly Bivol I can't think of too many guys fighting at their natural weight or bulking up to go to a higher division. I think most fighters cut weight and gain it back after the weigh in. Personally, I don't see the advantage.

 

Oh I just realized who you are now hello "Redbeard7" Neetszcheen" "ShortRound" i just noticed you got banned on your 3rd Alt account.

Another account to ignore bye.

 

You’re joking.

I thought it was an alt.

“Ali wouldn’t have had a chance against Usyk. He’d never fought a southpaw before”

I’ve had loads of debates with all of those alts.

That’s all I used to get.

He’s a clown.

 

Yeah I can tell by the posting style and the way he uses "quotations" instead of inserting quotes I'm observant and recognize traits like that.

And I double checked the Redbeard account which I had ignored BTW, and see that account got banned a few days ago.

So yeah a simple case of putting 2 and 2 together, but now i know i can just ignore him not worth wasting my time.

 

Is Redbeard in the room with us right now?

 

Let’s hope not.

 

Makes perfect sense. Fighters will still run the risk of being drained with SDWI's. That's one of the reasons weigh ins went to the day before. I guess each system has its pros and cons. At the end of the day, I just want to see good competitive fights. The best fighters, in the best possible condition, going at it.

 

ali stunk, terribly overrated