Hey guys made a list of top heavyweights with my own criteria based on how many good wins they have with loses as a tiebreaking criteria wanted to hear your thoughts on the list: Welcome to any criticism or adjusting my numbers 1. Muhammad Ali: Quality wins: Archie Moore (83), Doug Jones (84), Henry Cooper (85), Sonny Liston (89), Sonny Liston (85), Floyd Patterson (87), George Chuvalo (79), Henry Cooper (83), Karl Mildenberger (81), Ernie Terrell (84), Zora Folley (85), Jerry Quarry (86), Oscar Bonavena (84), Jimmy Ellis (86), Buster Mathis(83), George Chuvalo 1972 (78), Jerry Quarry 1972 (87), Floyd Patterson (84), Bob Foster (87), Ken Norton 1973 (88), Joe Frazier 1974 (89), George Foreman (97), Ron Lyle (87), Joe Frazier 1975 (93), Jimmy Young (84), Ken Norton 1976 (85), Earnie Shavers (85), Leon Spinks (84) Quality win total: 28 Average value of quality wins: 85.43 Big 3: George Foreman (97), Joe Frazier 1975 (93), Joe Frazier 1974 (89) 2. Lennox Lewis: Quality wins: Donovan Ruddock (85), Tony Tucker (84), Frank Bruno(86), Tommy Morrison (86), Ray Mercer (87), Oliver McCall (82), Andrew Golota (87), Shannon Briggs (87), Željko Mavrović (82), Evander Holyfield Mar 1999 (92), Evander Holyfield Nov 1999 (90), Michael Grant (83), Francois Botha(80), David Tua (83), Hasim Rahman (84), Mike Tyson (85), Vitali Klitschko (88) Quality win total: 17 Average value of quality wins: 85.35 Big 3: Evander Holyfield Mar 1999 (92), Evander Holyfield Nov 1999 (90), Vitali Klitschko (88) 3. Joe Louis: Quality wins: Primo Carnera (84), Max Baer (86), Jack Sharkey (81), Bob Pastor (83), James J. Braddock (85), Tommy Farr (78), Max Schmeling (87), John Henry Lewis (85), Tony Galento (78), Bob Pastor (84), Arturo Godoy (82), Arturo Godoy (83), Red Burman (79), Abe Simon (80), Buddy Baer (84), Billy Conn (89), Lou Nova (83), Buddy Baer (85), Abe Simon (81), Billy Conn (87), Tami Mauriello (83), Jersey Joe Walcott (90), Jimmy Bivins (79), Quality win total: 23 Average value of quality wins: 83.30 Big 3: Jersey Joe Walcott (90), Billy Conn (89), Max Schmeling (87) 4. Wladimir Klitschko: Quality wins: Axel Schulz (83), Chris Byrd (85), Francois Botha(78), Ray Mercer(79), Jameel McCline (80), Samuel Peter (86), Chris Byrd (87), Calvin Brock (83), Ray Austin (77), Lamon Brewster (80), Sultan Ibragimov (88), Tony Thompson (85), Ruslan Chagaev (88), Eddie Chambers (82), Samuel Peter (84), David Haye (90), Tony Thompson (83), Mariusz Wach (77), Alexander Povetkin (91), Kubrat Pulev (89), Bryant Jennings (83) Quality win total: 21 Average value of quality wins: 83.71 Big 3: Alexander Povetkin (91), David Haye (90), Kubrat Pulev (89) 5. Evander Holyfield: Quality wins: Pinklon Thomas (82), Michael Dokes (84), Adílson Rodrigues (82), Alex Stewart (79), Seamus McDonagh (78), Buster Douglas (85), George Foreman (88), Larry Holmes (89), Alex Stewart (79), Riddick Bowe (92), Ray Mercer (89), Bobby Czyz (76), Mike Tyson (93), Mike Tyson (88), Michael Moorer (87), Vaughn Bean (75), John Ruiz (86), Hasim Rahman (83), Lou Savarese (77), Francois Botha (77), Brian Nielsen (76) Quality win total: 21 Average value of quality wins: 83.10 Big 3: Mike Tyson (93), Riddick Bowe (92), Ray Mercer (89) 6. Mike Tyson: Quality wins: Marvis Frazier (86), Trevor Berbick (87), James Smith (83), Pinklon Thomas (82), Tony Tucker (84), Larry Holmes (90), Tony Tubbs (79), Michael Spinks (93), Carl Williams (85), Frank Bruno(86), Henry Tillman(79), Alex Stewart (79), Donovan Ruddock (85), Donovan Ruddock (84), Buster Mathis Jr. (82), Frank Bruno(85), Bruce Seldon (83), Francois Botha (80), Andrew Golota (85), Brian Nielsen (84) Quality win total: 20 Average value of quality wins: 84.05 Big 3: Larry Holmes (90), Michael Spinks (93), Trevor Berbick (87) 7. George Forman: Quality wins: George Chuvalo (79), Gregorio Peralta (78), Joe Frazier (94), José Roman (77), Ken Norton (93), Ron Lyle (87), Joe Frazier (89), Dwight Muhammad Qawi (86), Gerry Cooney (87), Adílson Rodrigues (82), Alex Stewart (79), Pierre Coetzer (79), Michael Moorer (90), Axel Schulz (83), Lou Savarese (78) Quality win total: 15 Average value of quality wins: 84.10 Big 3: Joe Frazier (94), Ken Norton (93), Michael Moorer (90) 8. Larry Holmes: Quality wins: Earnie Shavers 1978 (85), Ken Norton (89), Mike Weaver (77), Ossie Ocasio (78), Earnie Shavers 1979 (85), Trevor Berbick (86), Leon Spinks (84), Renaldo Snipes (79), Gerry Cooney (86), Randall Cobb (77), Tim Witherspoon(88), Marvis Frazier(86), James Smith(83), Carl Williams(84), Ray Mercer(90), Eric Esch (75) Quality win total: 16 Average value of quality wins: 83.53 Big 3: Ken Norton (89), Tim Witherspoon(88), Ray Mercer(90) 9. Rocky Marciano Quality wins: Roland La Starza (75), Rex Layne (85), Joe Louis (85), Harry Matthews (83), Jersey Joe Walcott (91), Jersey Joe Walcott (92), Roland La Starza (78), Ezzard Charles (90), Ezzard Charles (91), Don Cockell (82), Archie Moore (89) Quality win total: 11 Average value of quality wins: 85.55 Big 3: Jersey Joe Walcott (92), Ezzard Charles (91), Archie Moore (89) 10. Joe Frazier: Quality wins: Oscar Bonavena 1966 (84), Eddie Machen (79), Doug Jones (85), George Chuvalo (79), Buster Mathis (84), Oscar Bonavena 1968 (85), Jerry Quarry (87), Jimmy Ellis (86), Bob Foster (88), Muhammad Ali (98), Joe Bugner (82), Jerry Quarry 1974 (86), Jimmy Ellis (86) Quality win total: 13 Average value of quality wins: 85.31 Big 3: Muhammad Ali (98), Bob Foster (88), Jerry Quarry (87)
Fine list. Given your criteria, i find it hard to dissgree. Lewis indeed beat better competition than a lot of other heavyweights even though Holyfield and Tyson were a mere shadow of their best at this time. Still, him heating Ruddock, Tua, Mercer, Morrison, Vitali, Rahman, Briggs are all good wins. I do find it a bit strange to rank Lewis infront of Holyfield if we are looking at quality wins. I am not sure if Lewis ever beat someone as good as 93 Bowe (not Lewis's fault; Bowe ducked him). Yes, Lewis beat Holyfield but are we factoring in age? IMO in terms of pure quality of wins, Holyfield is probably ahead of Lewis.
I think that Louis should be in the top two, but I can't take very grave exception to anything. Some might take exception to none of the champions pre Louis making the cut.
Well big factor here is that Lewis beat Holyfield twice plus has more better wins then Holyfield at heavyweight (not counting his run at cruiserweight) plus less losses but I can see what you mean.
I originally had him two but I think overall Lewis just had better wins then him imo but I can see the argument for either. As for the champions it's kinda hard for me to evaluate their wins since I'm not as knowledgeable on that era I did have Johnson as 11 on my list when I did a top 20.
Its close IMO. Holyfield beat 93 Bowe, 96 Tyson who is way better than 2002 Tyson, Moorer, 91 Foreman who was still dangerous, the same Mercer that Lewis beat. But yes, i don't have a major issue with your list. Good work.
I wonder what Usyk would have to do to get in. IMO beat Hrgovic followed by Zhang and one or two more major wins- perhaps Fury or someone else.
Usyk is tough since he really only has 4 good wins at Heavyweight but all of his wins were really good even more so if he beats Fury so we'll see. P4P with his wins at Cruiserweight I'd have him pretty up there.
Excellent List. Love the placement of Lewis and Wlad. Nitpicking, I probably would boot Marciano and have Holmes higher... but I get your method.
some of these ratings are off, some of the way off IMO(Like Berbick and Marvis Frazier being a better win than Ruddock or Tucker for Tyson) but going into each one is just going to derail the thread. But its a quality list with alot of thought and work put into it!
I was honestly expecting Holmes to be higher but he just didn't have as many good wins as I thought he would. I might honestly swap Marciano with Jack Johnson but not too well informed about how good Johnson's wins actually are.
Holyfield is way to high , should be exchanged with Holmes. Holyfield is 1-2 vs Bowe, 1-1 vs Moorer, 0-2 vs Lewis, 1-1-1 vs Ruiz...................and Moorer and Ruiz are B level at best. Holyfields claim to fame is beating a washed up post prison Tyson who fought a little over a half dozen rounds in four years.......... Holmes was a dominant champ, Holyfield never was, without Tyson he has SIX losses vs three wins vs the above.
Thanks for the kind words! I'm totally down for any critiques on my list since I'm not sure about all my ratings. Part of my rating is also how dominant someone looked in the fights so while Ruddock and Tucker were better wins Tyson looked much better against Berbick and Marvis but again I'm open to adjust my numbers a bit.
I can see your point but I feel like overall Holyfield just has more and better wins then Holmes (including a wins over Holmes himself though obviously when Holmes was past his best) But I can definitely consider it since I feel like Holmes should be higher tough call imo
