Is there a genetic reason behind power?

I think it has to do with how hard your fist is. It would be nice to know how many times guys with real power had hand injuries and all that, you know what I mean ?

 

Being able to produce power and use it while throwing a punch are very different things.

Producing power is simply being able to produce large portions of your maximal strength quickly. Usually in the quads, glutes and hamstrings. The percentage of your top strength you can produce quickly is almost entirely genetic, but anyone can increase their strength and then turn it into power. But it will always be easier for the more gifted.

Putting it into a punch however, is a very different matter. Think of a punch and how it starts in slow motion. You hinge slightly; twisting the hip back, then push the force into the floor.



This alone is based on the ability to extend the hips with power, extend the knee with power, maintain rigidity in the ankles to push the force into the floor. It also requires a use of the Stretch-Shortening Cycle, which is essentially when a muscle is slightly stretched and then contracts quickly. Essentially, like firing a rubber band. Then, the force travels back up the legs and into the core, which again requires ankle rigidity and core strength. Then as you twist, the upper back is stretched and the punch travels behind the hip. This is where the snap comes from, and is called the Serape Effect. A strong upper back and obliques will inevitably make this more potent.

So off the top of my head, upper back strength, strength and power in the legs and glutes, the ability to take in force and redirect it, torso and ankle rigidity, and strength in the obliques are all major factors in punching. Every single one of these, is subject to genetics. But every single one of these can be improved to some degree.

But then there are other factors, things as seemingly trivial as limb lengths, torso weight, etc. can all be factors. Power isn't vague, it's just really ****in complicated.

 

The topic was whether a puncher is born, or becomes one, and the majority answered that it is born.

 

It really frustrates me that most coaches, at least here where I live, don't mention the step by step process of a mechanically sound punch's delivery. My coach just said ''turn your entire body when throwing a punch'' and left it at that. I couldn't throw a powerful straight right hand to save my life, despite my many attempts. Zero aknowledgment of how the punch should start from the feet, go to the hips, then the shoulder, and then finally extend to the arm to be effective. I had to learn that on my own. Let alone the Stretch-Shortening cycle, and how certain ways of delivering a punch can affect it's power. I felt like a genius when I realized for myself how to properly throw a harder right hand by using the cycle.

I always used to have my rear hand in front of my jaw to parry shots, and since my right hand just couldn't work, I was mostly a jab and left hook type of guy, safe to say, if I couldn't keep my opponent at a distance, he would beat me up. Then I realized just how insanely hard I could hit with it, just by cocking my right hand closer to my chest and shoulders, and a bit above shoulder height, where my back muscles would tense, since the tension would be released when I'd throw it, the power would be huge. I hit a guy this way once and literally knocked him off his feet, previously it would have been about as hard as a stiff jab.

 

Great description of how the kinetic chain really works! Nicely done!

 

Yeah from the most basic sense I would say weight and speed behind the punch are the two most important factors here. And it can be either or in some cases.

 

Bones is the simpliest answer, among other factors. Fist size is another.

 

of course there is, just as some guys are 'naturally' Bull Strong, where other guys of very similar statures are Weak as Mince.

I am 5'8", was a very good athlete, runner, fast, agile and can work physically all day, even still at nearly 64, yet I have always been not very strong. Yes there has to be genetic factors, which will also be lethally enhanced with proper technic.

 

Yeah, I get what you mean. In boxing gyms, a lot of it is based on bagwork, touch sparring, running, skipping etc, then some sparring at the end. I don't really like the set up but it's pretty universal - and I've trained in a fair few gyms all over Manchester. Most of the time, if you're technique is off, you'll get some vague comment about putting your hips into it or to stop punching with your arms, but nothing useful until you get some serious one on one pad work. Doing drills one on one with a coach watching everything I'm doing was more rewarding than anything else I've done aside from sparring people who were plain and simply much better than me.

And I got real lucky to be honest, I didn't get a boxing coaches instruction on how to punch, I got a mixed martial artists, who primarily did kickboxing and Thai boxing. He was pretty small time and just rented out a section of a private gym that already had a ring and a bags in it, and at first I was one of about six. I also was too young to make my own way there and my dad started work at the same time the session started, so I was a good half an hour early every session so I got a lot of one on one work. He was more thorough in getting power in our punches - and kicks, too, which work basically off the same principles in a reversed order - going through each stage of throwing a punch. He always taught us to disconnect what we did with the lower body and upper body when practicing.

By that I mean he basically told us to use the bag to practice the technical aspects of building power without actually throwing the punch. He'd use coaching cues like focusing on pulling the opposite shoulder back before throwing a powerful shot, or thinking of stepping without stepping when you shift your weight around. Stuff like that. Then eventually when you got into the rhythm of it, you got to let rip

Then, when shadowboxing, he'd tell us to forget about power and just focus on making sure our punches looked 'pretty'. Now I know what he was really telling us to do was to make sure our punches were efficient, losing no wasted time or energy and taking the most direct path from A to B. This where I actually really struggled, simply because when I started boxing instead of Thai/kickboxing it didn't work as well with the new stances and defensive maneuvers I had to learn. Regardless, the practice of disconnecting what my arm was doing from the rest of my body did really help me understand how to punch harder, and how to become more efficient. Or 'pretty', I guess.

Then for padwork, he had us just throw as we would in sparring or fights. That way we got everything mixed in and developed into more well rounded fighters. I can't manage to find Gaz on any social media nowadays, but he really was the best coach I ever had. Not that he was alone, mind you. Over the years I went to his gym, we wound up with a few assistant coaches who were all great too but Gaz was the ****ing man.

When I was 17/18, I got into an academy set up by Joe Gallagher in Harpurhay, which was absolutely amazing. Consistently sparring with some of the best amateurs in the country helped me improve so far past what I was before. I always had two left feet and couldn't spell defence if you give me all the letters and told me what order to put them in, but I improved a lot. I learnt a helluva lot from the S&C coach there too, a guy named Elliot Dillon who had a masters in either Strength and Conditioning or Sports Science - I don't remember which. He was a cool guy too.

 

Thee is a genetic component.

I honestly think so.

 

I would argue too, that you never really see a boxer improve in power quite as much simply because they only ever make increase in body weight in small increments at a time, and when they do, they still weigh the same as their opponents. Not to mention, they spend their entire training camp losing weight, which essentially eliminates any chance of serious strength gain past a novice level.

The easiest way to improve how hard you hit is to get bigger and stronger. Boxers by the sport's nature, will never really be able to take this route.

 

Yeah, you really were fortunate for that. I certainly wasn't that lucky. But maybe it's just a lack of knowledge and strive towards true efficiency here in Greece. I've been out of my gym for about a year until last month, I managed to get 2 practices in before opening up some cuts near my right knuckles by hitting the metal above the speed bag accidentally, so I'm not going back again until next week . Anyway, my gym managed to host a tournament here in my city against some other amateurs from Israel in july, so I decided to check it out. I met with my coach and some guys I knew and they were pleased to see me after such a long time, and they even got me and my friends some good seats to watch the tournament. Some of the faces competing were recognizible, and I was excited to see them fight. I understood the sport better in the time I was away and truly wanted to see what they had in store for me to see.

I was dissapointed. All I was seeing were messy scraps with rushed punches, mediocre balance and almost no defensive responsibility. Their hands were rarely close to their body, mostly just hanging out there to jab and parry, and never following the Stretch-Shortening Cycle. Yeah they were '' turning their whole body'' when throwing them, but you could clearly see there was no real knock out power there, they were mostly quick and desperate punches to just outspeed and outwork the other guy. They were always on the move and bouncing on their toes, so they weren't able to properly set their shots either, moving around was also about the extent of their defensive responsibility. They would try to slip punches, bob and weave etc but they didn't do it at the appropriate time, they were just making an attempt at being elusive, and would get only get lucky a handful of times. I vividly remember a guy missing a right hand and he just completely dropped it before bringing it back, instead of it going straight. Another guy missed not because the other guy was defending, he simply didn't even move his rear foot forward when throwing a right hand to close the distance. I also suspect they've never learned how to properly take a hit without being completely losing their focus and balance, to at least be able to get a punch in simultaneously.

I know it was the amateurs, which have a very short time span, but it just seemed to me like they were mostly just trying to outrush the other guy by the time the fight ends. No patience, no trap counter-punches, and no proper game plan. Just go out there and try to outwork the other guy to win, instead of actually trying to think in the ring. Some of the stuff they were doing wrong would be heavily chastised during practice, but here every coach for Greece would just say basic stuff like ''send him to the ropes, go to work, let your hands go'' etc. I genuinely don't get it. I assume they just didn't want to pressure them too much or something, who knows. Maybe that's why we've never had a truly world class guy aside from Christoforidis almost a century ago, who is our clear GOAT, yet far from an ATG himself. Our best guy since then has been Arnaoutis by some distance, unless we count Kambosos and Katsidis who are from Greek descent, and we all know what an absolute world beater Arnaoutis was. It's sad really.

Your breakdowns are absolutely brilliant though. I've read some of them on particular fighters here before and they were incredible, as was the one here. Maybe it's a big favor to ask if they're hard to find in so many random threads, so I won't ask for it too strongly, but it would be fantastic if you could send me some links of older breakdowns you've done here on guys like Napoles, Whitaker or some I haven't managed to find yet. From memory alone, they're absolute gems. No need to send the Duran or Canto ones though, I know where they are.

 

Genetics plays a big role. Rollin mentioned Bones. Bone density is very important. Better punching technique can be learned and added on, as well as getting physically stronger can help...if not overdone. I think Genetics is the number one reason for punching power, how everything works together, from the fist to the bottom of the feet.

 

Geez i've haven't been on here in awhile but this thread had me interested. I didn't read any responses on this thread as I write this comment.

Undoubtedly, genetics play a role in every boxer. But. If you were to describe the best boxers, you'd never speak of genetics. It's skill, proficiency, natural ability. Genetics in our modern world are a science that is tangible and can be argued for superiority. Sure we look at reach, height, and a number of other genetic factors when we are assessing a fighter from a surface level and at times these aforementioned factors can be so relevant to their style and ability.

But my argument is that genetics are something that can either utilized or more importantly overcome. I won't try and list the fighters who are examples of this. But on paper, guys like Leonard should not defeat Hearns. Ali should not have beat Foreman. As much as Leonard or Ali are considered bordering on supernatural and generational talents, it's a disservice to not recognize they are products of their efforts and training.

Genetics are something that can be taken advantage of, but far, far, more often not just in boxing but fighting at large, they seem to be a de-facto obstacle to adapt or overcome.

EDIT: I'm not at all arguing for eugenics or for selective gene breeding (same thing i guess), but that someone can recognize, longer arms often provide an advantage in fighting unless the opponent has a contrasting style, for example- thats all.