Ken Norton vs Max Baer

It is also beyond obvious that he sucked against punchers.

 

Ted Gullick lasted longer than Norton did, so it could happen for Braddock too, but it really doesn't say much. He's getting flattened by Foreman, either way.

Neither does Braddock's outpointing of Baer, really. Several others did this, who were lesser boxers than Norton.

 

OK so let's say that Foreman destroys him.

Is Garcia going to stop him?

Is Shavers going to ice him one?

Is Cooney even when he is past his prime?

The answer to these questions if probably no in my not so humble opinion.

 

No

Next question.

 

If he could survive Baer for fifteen rounds then he could survive them.

 

Y'all make out that his chin is the finest china. It's not. Furthermore Baer is a "puncher" against considerably lighter and less skilled opposition than Norton. I don't dispute that he hit with authority but he is technically woeful and succeeded largely because he was the big man against a slew of midgets.

 

Baer fought like a clown in a terrible performance not a very good comparison. Just because Baer hits hard doesn't mean Holmes or Ali couldn't stop Braddock. Norton was bigger and had a certain style to neutralise jabs. Braddock wouldn't be anywhere near as effective as Norton, and would likely be taking more punishment hence the reason he could be stopped.

50+ rounds with Holmes and Ali over 4 fights ? No chance.

 

So, as I suspected, you are forming your view on the reputation of punch power alone. The application of that power, by way of strategy and skill-set do not come into play, for you, it would seem.

I would go as far as to say that not only would Shavers and Cooney flatten Braddock (and we never really saw a past prime Braddock fighting World Class fighters, let alone punchers of Shavers and Cooney's level) but also that Holmes, Ali, Frazier and Lyle would probably have stopped him.

 

I can see no justification for saying that he owed his success to being matched against smaller opponents.

He won the title from teh largest lineal champion that thee has ever been.

Frankly he is far more proven in this regard than Norton.

 

If he he lasted the distance against Baer, then we would have to be open to the possibility that he could do the same against Ali and Holmes.

I get it that it wasn't Baers best nigh but he was levels above them in terms of power.

The only person who ever cracked Braddock's chin is Louis, and he basically stopped everybody.

 

I would give Braddock an excellent chance of defeating Shavers and Cooney.

It is highly unlikely that either of then does what they did to Norton against him.

 

You're misunderstanding his point Norton faced Shavers when he was past his prime, and then fought Cooney when he was shot at the end of his career.

So if we're pitting Braddock at the end of his career against two huge punchers then I wouldn't think it would end well for Braddock.

Again Norton's chin wasn't weak otherwise he wouldn't of lasted 50 rounds vs Ali and Holmes. Shavers is an ATG puncher, so is Foreman, and Cooney is probably in the top 10 for the most devastating left hooks in Heavyweight history.

 

And, to confirm, you base this chance Braddock has against them both on his victory over Baer (essentially, one fight)?

This^ can only be a bit of a blind punt, really - As already mentioned, we never saw a past prime Braddock in action.

 

No it doesn't work like that Braddock would be alot less effective vs Holmes, Ali, and would be taking more punishment hence hes more vulnerable to being stopped. Just because he survived vs Baer who isn't even close to Ali or Holmes's skill level and fought a very poor fight. I think it's very sumptuous to assume Braddock who fought alot of his career at Light Heavyweight could go 50 rounds vs good versions of Holmes, Ali.

The question is would Braddock be competitive vs Holmes and Ali ? No would be my answer. He would be getting busted at range by bigger more skillful fighters.

Ali stopped some very tough fighters Quarry, Bonavena, Foreman, Lyle, Liston, etc. I don't see why it's not possible Ali could not stop Braddock especially in 3 attempts.

 

Carnera messed his ankle up early. That obviously had an effect. And Carnera was "ok" skills wise but not near Norton.