Is Age 23 "Green" for a fighter?

Boxing is a far more physical sport than soccer. Also, many boxers take a very long time to master the technical parts of the sport. Manny Pacquiao turned pro at 16, but did not have sharp fundamentals until he was almost 30. Michael Jordan started playing basketball as a kid, but did not master basketball until his late 20s. Some athletes take a long time to master their craft.

 

A guy who's in the first or second year of his career who hadn't faced contenders yet. Usually a guy with 15 fights or less. Canelo when he fought pbf doesn't fit that criteria.

 

Yes I get that, but at the same rime Canelo was already very skilled and was a champ at 23. Look at the way he is built, it's like a young tyson, who was at what level aged 23?

Again, if canelo is a little green skillwise, you also have to count into the fact that Floyd is past his physical.prime and had much more wear and tear

Both were not in their prime
It was a top win by Floyd and it has aged beautifully

If it was manny you would be arguing the opposite

 

It's a matter of definition. It's a good win, but gets blown out of proportion when some people say that was prime Canelo. Because it wasnt.

 

Agree to disagree
It was an absolute top win, as it wasn't prime Floyd either and it wasn't canelo one or 2 years into his career

 

I never said Floyd was in his prime. Because he wasn't. I'm saying Canelo wasnt maxed out and was still improving. Which you've already agreed with.

 

I Do agree, but it is imo still much better than just a good win, when you take into consideration the weight difference

I bet you highly rate Manny beating Cotto, Oscar and Margarito? 2 of those wins are extremely legit, but they also have asterisks of their own.

People just hate Floyd because of his persona and he is judged different

If Floyd was Eastern European he would be the goat on this forum

 

We mostly agree. Yes the Pacquiao fight against Cotto is tainted by the unnecessary catchweight. All things must be taken into account. I do agree some people hate Mayweather. It's a good win by Mayweather. Would have helped if Canelo wasnt forced to make 152 and had been the same version that GGG fought.

 

You’ve hardly listed any advantages.


An 8 year unbeaten streak against who?

A defending world champion? Yeah, after winning a vacant title from a European level fighter.

His 7th defence of the title? But look at who he fought in his previous 6 defences.

No, he wasn’t approaching his prime.

Yes, he had a weight advantage, but he didn’t implement it, which is why Floyd had said that he didn’t care what he weighed, which made the C-W even more of a joke.

Floyd wasn’t just a challenger. Floyd was also a JMW champion after having beaten Cotto. So he was also a defending champion.

 

What do you mean he wasn’t going to insist on a C-W?

He did insist on a C-W.

What happened, was that Canelo had previously mentioned the possibility of a C-W in the press, in order to try and obtain the fight earlier. But those earlier comments were then held against him by Leonard Ellerbe in the official negotiations which took place later.

Ellerbe had picked up on that and then told Canelo and his team that it had to be at 152 pounds.

Canelo and his team then tried to change it to 154 pounds, but Ellerbe and Floyd wouldn’t budge, even though they obviously could have done.

Floyd then laughed that Canelo had previously mentioned a 152 C-W, and that Ellerbe had been smart in picking that up and using it against him.

That’s literally what happened.

And although Canelo had previously said that in the press, it was a JMW unification between two JMW belt holders.

Canelo is on record saying that Floyd wouldn’t budge, and that if he hadn’t have agreed to it there wouldn’t have been a fight.

After Floyd had gotten what he wanted, he then bragged to the media that he didn’t care what weight Canelo would be on fight night, as in his words ‘skills paid the bills’ where the weight was irrelevant.

 

There's a lot of truth in this statement.

Conversely, if Floyd was Eastern European, some of the same people who are presently singing his praises would be down -playing the exaxt same achievements.

Don't kid yourself.

 

First of all, I’m not a fan of either fighter.

I’m not biased towards either of them.


No, it wasn’t a C-W against a WW champion and a JMW champion.

They were both JMW champions.

The belt that Floyd had taken off of Cotto was on the line in the fight.

They didn’t meet in the middle.

As I’ve said in my previous post, Floyd’s team took advantage of Canelo’s naivety and what he’d previously said to the press. Which was that he could possibly come down to 152 for a fight. But during official negotiations with both parties present, Floyd and Leonard Ellerbe then wouldn’t budge from it.

It shouldn’t even have been allowed. You can’t have two champions from the same division fighting at a C-W. It’s absurd. But that’s what happened. Money talks.

No, Canelo didn’t just agree to the terms. He had no choice but to agree to the terms if he wanted the fight.

Let’s tell it how it is.

Yes, Canelo was naive. But there’s no reason why Floyd couldn’t have agreed to the 154, especially as that’s the rules, and he’d said that he didn’t care what Canelo weighed.

It was just typical Floyd BS.


Again, apart from the unnecessary C-W, Floyd deserves huge credit for the win, and I’ve no other feelings towards it.

 

I don’t think that he was drained to death, but Floyd and Ellerbe obviously insisted on the C-W hoping that he’d struggle. And in doing so, they both took the shine off of the win, as it will always be debated on whether or not it was a factor.

 

Because it’s not just as simple as it being just another 10 pounds.

Otherwise we’d have seen Floyd regularly fight at JMW and MW.

It’s not just another 10 pounds.

It’s a completely different fight, against a completely different fighter.

Again, ask yourself how confident and offensive minded Floyd would have been against an elite level MW-SMW.

In 2013, Floyd had a young Canelo in front of him, where he could dictate the pace and pot shot him etc. But how confident would he have been against a matured version who’d have outweighed him by 25 pounds on the night, and where he’d have implemented that weight advantage, where he wouldn’t have stood off of him and shown him the same amount of respect.

A mature, SMW Canelo would have backed Floyd up.

He’d have thrown power punches. And whether or not he’d have been successful, he’d have made Floyd retreat, which would have made it a completely different fight stylistically.

He’d have walked him down and put him on the defensive, which would have negated his own offence.

It’s not in any way realistic to assume that the fight would have played out the same, just based upon an extra 10 pounds or so.

Again, you’re talking about completely different mindsets and different game plans etc.

 

You saw what he did to Smith and BJS.

He’s a different fighter to what he was at JMW.