Fighters you are astounded are considered ATGs?

Kostya Tszyu
Aaron Pryor

I do rate them but I don't see them as ATG's.

 

I appreciate that Fritzie Zivic's competition is ATG & that he some ATG wins, but it's not just the quantity of his losses (65), but the fact he lost plenty to non-world class fighters during his prime years too, that mean I don't consider him an ATG. Though I wouldn't go as far as to say I don't rate him at all, he clearly achieved some impressive feats during his career.

 

It's got to be Lomachenko for me. I don't think I've been as dissapointed with any Boxer as I was with him. Such a great talent, but ultimately wasted his career. Turned pro almost at 26, wasted 2 years fighting unproven opponents after Russell and prior to Martinez. Wasted almost 3 years after Lopez and prior to Haney, fighting guys like Nakatani, Ortiz and Commey, and he was never too active in the first place. I agree that he is at least a Hall of Famer, but career wise, he is not an all time great.

 

He has two wins over ATG's but one of them was past it "Cervantes".

And his win over Arguello which was at 140 wasn't Arguello's best weight, has a major asterisk over it because of the black bottle controversy.

 

Not really answering the question exactly per se but along similar lines.

I am astounded Sugar Ray Leonard is for so many considered a top 10/15 p4p all time.

No they were not poster boys with Leonard’s hype, but of that similar era, I find that the careers of Holmes Holyfield and Michael Spinks stack up well against Ray Leonard.

 

Those are my picks also, no doubt great fighters but not ATG's IMO

 

It's what your criteria is TBH quantity or quality ? Leonard doesn't have alot of longevity or alot of wins. But the quality of his wins over Benitez, Duran, Hearns, Hagler, you won't really find much better names than that on a resume.

Just imagine if Hagler would've got the nod over Leonard ? I wonder how much that alters his ATG standing overall ?

 

Khaosai Galaxy for me. H2H beast but a severely lacking resume.

 

I agree, Loma is no where near that status

 

Pryor, Tszyu, and Galaxy, like most guys who carved their legacies out in junior/super divisions, aren't "all-time greats" in the general sense, but all-time greats for the classes. I think that's the disconnect.

As much as I like Marcel Cerdan, he's consistently overrated and not really an "all-time great". His record doesn't justify the frequent top-10/15 placements he gets on middleweight lists. Bert Sugar having him #34 all-time p4p, for instance, cannot be justified.

 

I hear that but Ray has wins over Benitez, Hearns, Duran and Hagler on paper. For sheer quality of opponent and styles, it's hard to find 20 fighters that have a better top 4 wins than this.

I do, however, place a lot of value on consistency and overall ring record but it's hard to argue against Ray's quality of wins/opponent and H2H abilities.

 

Marciano was a glorified regional circuit fighter who became a transitional champion, bridging a bunch of old timers from the previous generation and the super athletes that were to follow with the next. Great heart, great fighting spirit, but an all time great? I don't see it. More of a guy who maximized the opportunity of his times.