Fighters you are astounded are considered ATGs?

it wouldnt. or it shouldnt. Beating a 147lber off a eye injury who had 1 fight in 5 years shouldnt really boost you that much as a MW. Especially since Leonard after that probably retires again, and in reality beat shot Duran and Lalonde and robbed Hearns. Leonard was nowhere near as great after the layoff, he was really good that night vs Hagler but it would be in no way a historical achievement for Hagler to beat him, it should be expected given the circumstances.

 

Im gonna land in hot water for this one.
Bowe, Liston badly overrated. Frazier imo is an ATG but ranked too high based on the Ali win, where Ali was stuck between styles still
Vitali K. Golovkin badly overrated
Deontay Wilder badly overrrated
Trinidad ODLH Whitaker and Quartey could all have wildly different rankings based on close decisions going the other way
Reggie Johnson and Winky Wright badly underrated.

 

That’s what state or national hall of fames should be for. But if you’re going to put guys like Lopez in there then you might as well put most fighters in

 

I think the same.

 

In a thread such as this, I MUST represent my late Grandfather and name Gene Tunney. Many have him in their top 10 or 15 all time Heavyweights. While I do not rate him as low as my Grandfather did, I do not have him anywhere near the top 15 all time Heavyweights.

 

Joe Walcott. The one from Jersey.

 

Ray Leonard isn’t the only fighter in history to beat other great fighters though. Most upper tier great fighters all have great signature wins.

Michael Spinks’ wins over Dwight Qawi and Larry Holmes were outstanding achievements. Larry Holmes beating Ken Norton and Gerry Cooney is outstanding. Evander Holyfield beating Qawi, Bowe and Tyson was outstanding.

The difference I see with Leonard’s big 4 wins is there’s always some big ‘Sugar Ray Leonard’ story to it. Whether it’s Duran quitting the rematch/ manipulating Hagler or coming from behind against Tommy, it’s all about Ray. He does something extra to embarrass his opposition. Whereas the other champs I listed just got down to business, so the wins aren’t as flashy. I’m pretty confident I could easily talk up Spinks, Holyfield and Holmes’ resumes to be on Leonard’s level.

And even in a p4p sense I think Spinks and Larry Holmes are better boxers than Ray, and Holyfield’s levels of success with such natural size disadvantages is such a disgusting achievement in a p4p context that I simply would not be opposed to talking him up as better fighter than Leonard either.

Sure Leonard looked the best fighter ever against Dave Boy Green, but Duran spanked him, Hearns easily outboxed him twice till his glass cost him on both occasions and the Hagler decision is the most controversial ever. Leonard’s will to win is probably underrated and his skills a little overrated imo. And Evander Holyfield and Larry Holmes were not exactly lacking a will to win either.

 

Well, that's the way it is already. That's why I don't take them seriously and have decided not to let myself get bent out of shape about it. The Ring Magazine's way of doing it was the closest thing to a true boxing hall of fame that we have had. The magazine simply sent out ballots once a year to boxing writers, who by and large when averaged out had no particular ax to grind, and then announced the results in the magazine. It wasn't perfect, but it was more objective than what we have now. Once you start to have promoters of an event who fund the whole process with an annual banquet and celebration, then any semblance of objectivity goes out the window and it becomes a business where you have to attract bodies to keep the event going every year. The result is a popularity contest. So in order to preserve my piece of mind I try to ignore the results of the voters. It's nice that the Brophys at Canastota and the World Boxing Hall of Fame in Los Angeles (is that organization still going? I thought they have ceased operations.) have a thing going where they can fund an annual party so fighters, their families and friends, dealers and collectors, and fans can get together, but that's all it's good for, and it ain't gonna change in my lifetime.

It would be interesting to compare the way nominees were selected and how the ballots were counted by Ring Magazine with the way the same procedures are conducted by the IBHOF. Or maybe such a comparison could be made between the way it is done by the Baseball Hall of Fame and the IBHOF. I seem to recall that in some years not very many make it into the Baseball Hall of Fame because of the high percentage of votes that are required to elect inductees. I would wager that the IBHOF's system of nominating candidates and counting votes is more lenient than the other systems. Just a guess on my part.

 

brave but looking for punishment.

 

Not bent out of shape about it either. Just responding to the thread. And frankly I don’t know why Lopez is in any hall of fame but good for him !!

 

Yeah, this one is just ridiculous. Dude lost almost 30% of his fights. Sorry, not an ATG.

 

I'm sincerely hoping no-one on the forum considers Klit and Wilder ATG material especially Wilder. GGG might even be borderline in here.

 

I think people confusing HOFs and ATGs here

 

Wlad