Dumphy: '63 Liston vs. past greats

Can’t blame him. No way could Liston replicate what the great Fireman Flynn did

 

Dempsey had a combination of mobility and punching power Liston never faced. And Dunphy's right. Jack would be underneath him.

Tunney is the template for outmaneuvering and out jabbing Sonny with vastly superior speed, and Gene, like Greb and Loughran, was among the few boxing champions who were legitimately fearless. He did NOT need to wallop Liston to decision him. He wasn't contemplating halting Greb. He was a stylist and the smartest of all the HW Champions. I don't know what Don was looking at with Tunney.

Louis is not outmaneuvering Sonny. Hand speed, combinations and shorter shots are another matter though. Again, I don't know what Don was thinking by saying Joe would outmaneuver Liston.

Footage enhancement wasn't what it is today and Lil' Artha' nearly saved Walter Dipley the trouble. During the reign of Louis, many considered the defense oriented Johnson the GOAT, and Blackburn privately said he'd have beaten Louis because he was a mover.

Rocky was never halted on cuts because he protected his head well, leading with his hands instead. The one time he was in real danger of a cuts loss, he went after Charles with total savagery. He would be under Sonny and coming over with that Suzy Q counter or that short right he lifted the title from JJW with. I do agree that Marciano gives Liston his best chance at a win on cuts. Sonny would have to beat a slow retreat behind his jab to do it though, as he retreated late career with Scrap Iron, elongating his straight jab.

Dunphy has been sharply criticized as an analyst. I do think Cosell was better in this regard. Also, Don wasn't ringside for Liston vs Machen. That might have changed his opinions on Liston a bit.

 

Oh dear.

 

Sonny Liston in July 1963 had just one fight, a demolition of Floyd Patterson for the second time in less than a year.

 

Not sure if the M instead of N in Dunphy was intentional.

Interesting article. If Don did study the films of Johnson closely, I would’ve thought he might question the bonafides of the Ketchel “KD”.

Fair for to Don to perhaps require more proofs on Liston but he certainly isn’t giving him the benefit of the doubt on several fronts.

No question, Louis had a brilliant and devastating jab - but it appears Don has ignored or over-sighted Liston’s own murderous jab - the quality of which was no mystery by the time Sonny demolished Floyd.

 

Boxing Illustrated did an excellent Heavyweight knockout tournament in the late 70s, which featured 64 fighters (so not just champs, and included the likes of Harry Wills, Peter Jackson and Buddy Bear etc) and their view on Dempsey-Liston was similar to Don's in description, with Jack stopping Sonny in the mid-rounds IIRC (in the last 16 of the tourney). Maybe Don was on the panel?

 

Liston would demolish Dempsey

 

Liston quit on his stool, in his second title defense after trying to blind his opponent with liniment didn´t work and the guy wouldnt just stand there and get knocked out.

So I wouldnt bet my house on him demolishing dempsey.

 

I literally don’t think Liston beats a single one of those guys. Especially not Tunney. Yes, yes before anyone cries about it shove off - I just don’t think much of Liston as a fighter.

 

Your post made me wonder when Dunphy did pass - born 1908 - passed 1998.

Hit 90 years of age, that’s a great innings.

I guess it’s a good idea to redress our own ratings, to specifically identify any undue lean toward the old school fighters and/or fighters we grew up with.

The bonds formed with fighters of your own era can be incredibly strong and hard to break - even when, in all objectivity, you should perhaps let them slide down your list.

Particularly given the open cheque that the HW division has been in respect of increasing size.

Size isn’t everything but it can be something when properly supplemented by a sufficient skill set.

If people do a relatively cursory check on fighters who boxed before their time - I can understand how Mike Tyson’s HL reel could be seen to stand above most others - he could look “as if” he could slay any man put before him, such was the devastating and emphatic nature of many of his victories.

In general, punchers often have that WOW factor, garnering more following and love than their “boxer type” counterparts.

 

I think Dunphy's view of things was about on a par with a lot of experts from his generation, maybe even more modern than most.

 

Liston smashes everyone he fights before the 60s.

Dempsey? Please.