Could an Iron Mike-like HW excel in todays era of giants?

Prime Tyson would be a problem because he was fast, a great combination puncher, and could hurt you with either hand, plus he was also a legit body puncher, not many heavy’s work the body anymore. He wouldnt do what he did then but he would be a nightmare for most guys in the era.

 

You might be right and my gut feeling tells me similar. I mentioned wilder because he is pretty unpredictable , punchers chance of the finest . To be fair wilder in over 40 hw fights despite his 'poor' skills somehow always was able to land a bomb . But most probably prime mike would send wilder to the canvas before he would be able to place his bomb , i agree

 

Except fringe contender Douglas and former 190 pounder Holyfield. Mike gets trashed every time in those hypotheticals.

 

Finkel,

How has it moved on though?

My interpretation/definition of the statement that you have made, would be the following:

That today’s division is ruled by a single SHW, or a number SHW’s.

That Mike couldn’t have competed today.

That is my interpretation/definition of you saying that the division has moved on.

Yet neither of those things are true.


So how has the division moved on exactly?

Yes, there’s more SHW’s than in Mike’s era, but the division hasn’t moved on.

In terms of quality, I’d say that the early 90’s division was better than today’s division.

Also, Mike’s best competition would all be top 10 guys today.


Yes, Bowe and Lennox were both great fighters. But both of them had trouble with smaller HW’s.

Lewis was bombed out by McCall and Rahman, and he barely beat Mercer.

Evander also caused Lennox issues, and we know who Evander beat, which included Bowe.

Lewis didn’t rule the division where nobody could touch him.

Wlad was also bombed out by a guy of Usyk’s size, as well as two other non great fighters.

Yes, Wlad did dominate more than Lennox, but the era was weak. And if Wlad’s era had contained the smaller greats of the 80’s and 90’s, then maybe he’d not have been anywhere as dominant. So there’s an awful lot to consider.

There’s no real evidence to suggest that Mike couldn’t have made it in the divisions that we’ve seen in the last 20 years or so.


Yes, the torch has been passed on to Fury and AJ, and between them they have dominated more than any other fighter. But they haven’t dominated everybody, and today’s era isn’t great. So to me, I don’t see how the division has moved on. A division containing bigger fighters than in Mike’s era, does not mean that it’s moved on. And there is no Tyson myth. Mike would have found some success in any era, as would any other great HW. They’d all have had mixed success, just depending who they were matched up with.

We are all desperate to see the Fury fight. Hopefully, that will definitely happen in the early part of next year. It’s going to be a very interesting fight. But I would say that Usyk being one of the main players where he’s beaten AJ twice, is actually evidence that the sport hasn’t moved on. Because if it had moved on by the dominance of SHW’s, then he’d never have been able to have beaten AJ, and the division’s King would be determined by the winner of an AJ-Fury fight. But that can’t happen.

Also, IF Usyk wins, then Usyk would then be proclaimed the King of today’s HW’s at 6’3.

So IF that were to happen, then again, how has the sport moved on?

Mike would also have been favoured over Usyk by most, due to how they’d have matched up stylistically.

My mistake.

I misread what you’d typed.

However, how does Mike Jameson being used as a punch bag for 5 rounds tell us how a fight with Fury would have played out?

How is that evidence of anything?

It isn’t.

 

Tyson is one of the best at taking single hard punches without being effected, Ruddock who's certainly on par with Wilder power wise never really had Tyson in much trouble despite hitting him cleanly plenty of times with his best punches.

Wilder's single right hand won't get the job done vs Tyson, and I would think he would have alot of problems landing anything clean on Tyson due to his great defence.

 

Povetkin and Mike weren’t alike though.

You know that.

We don’t need to see anyone like Mike to come along in order to make an EDUCATED guess on his realistic chances.

Most knowledgeable fans would have backed him over Usyk, AJ and Wilder.

 

Wilder wouldn’t have been dangerous for Mike.

He’d never had the time or space to have landed his power shots, and he hasn’t got the skills or inside game in order to have outboxed him or mauled him and tied him up.

It would have been a terrible stylistic fight for Wilder.

Usyk also would have been at a stylistic disadvantage against Mike. He has nothing to have kept Mike at bay. And you keep saying that Mike would had to have gotten him out of there in the first half, which simply isn’t true.

 

It’s Wilder’s unpredictability that makes him so dangerous. But he needs the time and space to land those power shots, and I don’t think that he could have landed them on a 5’10 target, who also had a unique style based upon great movement. Maybe if he was immensely strong with an inside game. Or if he could break him down with a great jab. But not from what I’ve seen of him.

 

It’s always about styles.

Always.

 

Yes. Any fighter that possesses the combination of power, speed and explosiveness of M.Tyson will always do well. Could he beat Fury, yes. If Wilder can drop him, Tyson surely could. But Fury is a rare breed himself. If he fights from the outside ties Tyson up on the inside, he wins going away. If they fought 10 times. I say Fury wins 6.

 

If he has an off night like douglas he can lose

He fought evander post prison and the guy wasn't 190

Holyfield would beat the breaks off the guys now also. Don't even get me started on Lewis

It's a terrible era of HWs and both klitschkos in their prime also beat Fury, Usyk etc

 

"Off night"

"Post prison"

There are always excuses when an overhyped boxer gets filled in, especially by massive underdogs.

Holyfield also bullied Mike when they were amateurs in 1984, despite Holyfield being a 178 pounder back then rather than a former 190 pounder as he was in 1996. He had Mike's number, which is also why Mike ducked him in 1991 with a fake injury.

If big Buster were a fluke, why didn't little Mike rematch him? He's 0-1 vs Douglas and there's no evidence Mike would have beaten him on another night, Mike got dominated barring one round. And in a rematch Mike would have even less confidence, probably finding a way out as he did vs Holyfield.

Keep defending the child groper, sexual assaulter, granny basher, serial quitter and ear mutilator. It shows your level of character.

"both klitschkos in their prime also beat Fury, Usyk etc"

Who cares about your clownish speculations. How many times have you picked against Fury only to be proven wrong? I've seen your posts in this regard, you're a dunce.

 

Yes

Most likely beats everyone besides maybe Fury due to size difference

 

This is hilarious from a Wilder fan.

“My suit was too heavy”

Ha!


We all know what happened against Douglas.

He hardly trained and had no motivation.

You have all the evidence you need.

We know that Mike had a bet with King to lose his excess weight, as King was concerned with his shape.

We know that Page dropped him in sparring.

We can see by watching the fight that he was lethargic.

We can see that his tank was empty by the time he was knocked out, yet 2 years later he was going to war with Ruddock in the final round.

It’s not a conspiracy.

Mike was nowhere near 100%, either physically or mentally.

Now maybe Douglas could ALWAYS have beaten him.

That’s debatable, but absolutely possible.

But come and be honest and tell it like it is.

Douglas got a version of Mike that just went though the motions, as it was just another fight after he’d already achieved everything.

It was no different from Dave Tiberi fighting James Toney, after Toney had just beaten the great Mike McCallum.


Regarding a rematch, Douglas mentally sold out to Evander, and was then not seen again until about 7 years later. Mike also went to prison and missed over 3 years of his career. That’s why there was no rematch.

Regarding an Evander fight from 1991, where is the evidence that Mike feigned an injury in order to get the fight postponed.

Enlighten me.

 

For me, Jameson was far more than just a punching bag in that fight. He was outmatched, certainly, but he was extremely game and had success imposing his size on Mike. Yes, he got dropped over several rounds but he kept getting back up and taking the fight to Mike, and looked quite capable of fighting on when Joe Cortez padded Mike’s record with that stoppage. What is it evidence of? Well it adds to the evidence of Mike finding it harder work when guys were taller, heavier, and didn't fear him, and Jameson, respectfully, wasn't top tier opposition.

Regarding the division moving on and how well Mike would do. Half the thread is about Mike dominating, but if you want to reframe it to being competitive, sure, I agree. However, whilst I think he would be in some good fights and have some good wins, he is definitely taking Ls too. And I don't see him climbing to the top of the ladder.

6’2+” Holyfield having success against Lewis and Bowe is not evidence of 5’10” being viable, 6’2+” Rahman, 6'1" Mercer, etc. Then throw in that Lewis had an easy nights work with both Tyson and Tua (both 5’10”). And it’s not like Tua had success against any modern super heavies either. Also, the losses Wlad took were all to fighters 6’2” and over. Chris Byrd was also 6’2”. So, where are these sub 6'0" heavyweights now? Heck we can argue over 6’2” Andy Ruiz’s true height, but the guy still comes in at 250lbs+ to remain competitive (if I’m being kind). And as I mentioned earlier, Tyson used to equalize or surpass the weights of his opponents for the most part whilst he was dominant. But in the current period his frame isn’t going to be able to handle that.

My basic stance is that if 5’10” was still viable we would still see them competing (because the money is in the marquee division). Maybe it is better for me to say, it is not that I think that only a 6'5"+ 220lb+ guys can be dominant, but that the Top Division has been more of an arms race than a cyclical history. A 6'3" 220lb slick southpaw seems to be very viable champion against a field of super heavies. However, whilst I could see a 5'10" Mike Tyson beating that same southpaw, the field is not made up of 6'3" 220lb fighters; it is made up of super heavies and one smaller virtuoso. As I see it, the window of viability regarding size has marched onward and upward, and it doesn't have room for 5'10" guys anymore, even the ATGs. But let's say hypothetically that if Usyk overcomes Fury, it will indeed show that size can be overcome by skill. However, I would like to point out this would be a 6’3” ATG Usyk’s achievement, not 5’10” Mike’s.


Anyway, I can appreciate we are both passionate about this topic. It's been a fun discussion.