Was FOTC the best version of Ali post exile?

Very hard to say, since he was up against Frazier at his very best. But I do think you have a point in that he was still trying to figure out a style for his faded athleticism. And he was only six months back from the long lay-off with a quite hectic schedule. Still, though, he was 3-4 younger than for Norton 2 and the rematch with Frazier and the damage from FOTC did him no good either, so there's good reason to believe he didn't improve.

Then there's the talk about him not being 100% focussed in training, but when doesn't such talk surface after a loss?

I don't believe Norton beats the best post-exile version of Ali, since I believe Norton was as good as he ever was when he fought Ali the second time. In his physical prime, riding high on his historic win in the first fight and yet to be brutally flattened by Foreman.

 

I think it was, Ali just ran into a buzzsaw called Smokin Joe Frazier who could have beaten anyone that night not named Foreman or Liston.

 

Ali seemed a bit rusty in the FOTC and the fights leading up to it. The best version of post exile Ali would IMO be the Norton rematch

 

In a sense, yes. Perhaps not the smartest tactically but so fluid and punishing with his combos. He really beat the prime out of Frazier even though he lost.

 

How did you score Ali/Norton 2?

 

Though at his youngest and least worn/torn during his second career, I would say no due to Ali not yet having achieved optimal match fitness.

It might not have seemed like it for Ali at the time - but the almost 15 arduous rounds vs Bonavena was a blessing in disguise - fast tracking Ali toward complete match fitness - though he still wasn’t quite there.

Another say, 3 rounder like he had with Quarry - instead of the Bonavena match - wouldn’t have done Ali any favours.

Though he was very mobile and relatively sharp in Atlanta, having just come out of exile, Ali was clearly looking a but tired after just near 3 rounds - and Muhammad admitted as much after the fight .

By the time of the Frazier/Norton rematches, Ali was that bit older and more worn/torn (the first fight vs Frazier itself making no mean contribution to that wear/tear).

However, Ali had arrived at optimal match fitness for those fights and the match vs Foreman in Zaire.

So, all in all, per net calculations,, I’d say the best version of post exile Ali was seen during the aforementioned matches.

 

Bingo.

 

...Was His Name O? Haha - cheers.

 

Christ how did you come across this.....i had to look it up

 

7-5 Ali, I think.

 

This is the trouble with “Primes” fighters forget things, pick things up - change for better or worse fight to fight to fight.I have no idea.

 

He was pretty close if not optimal. He had to take Quarry seriously even if the match turned out to be easier than expected. This was no Peter McNeely cash grab. Next up 15 brutal rounds with a pressure slugger in Bonavena - finally the 3rd bout with Smokin Joe a fight we know Ali didn’t want to lose (he never wanted to lose but I would think he would have extra motivation in this fight) I’m pretty sure he as good as he was gonna be if he looked better after this fight it might have to do more with more favorable styles he faced. Joe was always going to be a problem for Ali

 

I lived a cosmopolitan life - and I’ve also had kids.