the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Gilberto Roman v Santos Laciar 2

I was reading the thread on technical fights and saw @Flo_Raiden ‘s recommendations (which are always good, by the way) of the Roman-Laciar series. I’d seen the first one which was scored a draw officially but I had as a Roman win so moved on to this one.

The skill level in this fight is superb. Fast combos and even faster reflexes meant it wasn’t always easy to tell who was getting the better of exchanges - the two even rounds were a reflection of that.

Overall, Laciar was the aggressor with Roman fighting within himself in the opening rounds and largely focussed on counter punching. I gave Laciar the edge in most of those rounds. In round 5, Roman, already suffering from cuts, upped his activity level significantly and went on the offensive. He started to pick away at a Laciar’s lead and going into the 11th, I had it dead even so it was disappointing that it got stopped.

Very good fight, though.

Roman-Laciar 2:
1 9-10 (close, Laciar edged it with the slightly more telling punches but could have been an even round)
2 10-10 (horrible to score so far)
3 9-10
4 9-10 (Roman goes down at the end of the round - ref rules it a slip)
5 10-9 (Roman presses the action for be first time and starts landing consistently. Best round of the fight so far)
6 10-9 (Roman finds his range and lands his jab consistently - some great punch variety as well from the Mexican)
7 10-9 (closer round)
8 9-10 (more aggressive from Laciar)
9 10-10 (hard to separate them)
10 10-9 (close - some great exchanges. Laciar on too early before Roman came back)
(96-96)
11 Laciar TKO Roman (ref stops due to Roman cut)

 

Pipino Cuevas KO 12 Angel Espada (second fight)

I love the story about how Pipino Cuevas got his title shot against Espada, one of my favorite tales in boxing lore. Espada, then WBA Welterweight Champion, was in attendance when Cuevas was outpointed by Andy Price and Espada (ever so prudently) proclaimed that Cuevas must then be his next challenger. I love the chutzpah of that edict, I really do. And Espada must have been connected, because it actually happened.

At any rate, we know what happened next; Cuevas pole-axes Espada and a legend is born, while the would-be hero fades into anonymity, unknown now but to a few hardcore boxing fans.

This fight ended as one might expect following the conclusive result of the first encounter. Espada loses via stoppage while suffering a broken jaw. That'll happen against Cuevas, a truly bone-breaking puncher if ever there was one. It doesn't tell the full tale, however.

I have to tip my hat to Angel, now playing the role of challenger. He's brave beyond measure, absorbing a frightful pounding at the hands of the Mexican wrecking ball. Floored by a hook high on the head in the second round, he courageously refused to wilt, and rose to accept a battering that resembled a jackhammer tearing up a crumbling sidewalk. The beating in the fifth round was exceptionl, with Cuevas hurling shots with full force and impunity, and Espada somehow managing to sty upright. What a display. I even gave the Puerto Rican the sixth, as Cuevas apparently needed to rest his arms and let up a bit.

The one-sided affair continued into the 11th, until Espada flopped down on his stool at the conclusion of the round with a swollen (broken) jaw. His corner and ringside doctor (with perhaps some input from Espada) concluded that the evening was over, and it went into the books as a 12th round stoppage.

I won't bother with a card here, as I gave Espada only the sixth round, but it was a noteworthy fight for the effort the challenger put forth. He earned his money that night. Somehow, he got yet another try at Cuevas' title, and was again stopped, making him little more than a footnote in the reign of the dynamic, exciting fan favorite who unseated him. He deserves better though, and this fight is an example of how gloriously one can wear a defeat.

 

I said i would watch this again and here's my scorecard, it's closer than i remember but there's no way Ayala won this 116-112 i don't know how you gave Ayala rounds 6 and 9 TBH. Tapia's defensive skills in those rounds were impeccable and he controlled the centre of the ring.



Johnny Tapia vs Paulie Ayala 2

1 Tapia
2 Ayala
3 Tapia
4 Ayala
5 Ayala
6 Tapia
7 Tapia
8 Ayala
9 Tapia
10 Ayala
11 Tapia
12 Ayala

114-114 Draw

 

No offence taken, I'm not sensitive ).

Thanks for taking the time to rescore it. Round 6 I marked as close round, so here I don't think it makes much sense for me to make an argument, I thought it could go either way so it's possible I'd give it to Tapia on second watch.
I did rewatch round 9 though - and I had it for Ayala again. He was made to miss a bit wide on couple occasions, but He'd also get through with single left hand, right hook and short left uppercut - and the way I saw it, He picked off most of Tapia's work on the gloves so He landed more and cleaner over the course of the round.
Maybe it was a bit closer than I thought on first occasion though, so no major argument from me. Hope You enjoyed it at least and don't feel like You wasted time with it.

 

My card on the fight, for what it's worth, when @Dynamicpuncher first recommended it to us.

Paulie Ayala v Johnny Tapia II (catchweight)

Round 1: 10-9 Tapia
Round 2: 10-9 Ayala
Round 3: 10-10 Even
Round 4: 10-10 Even
Round 5: 10-9 Ayala
Round 6: 10-9 Tapia
Round 7: 10-9 Tapia
Round 8: 10-9 Tapia
Round 9: 10-9 Ayala
Round 10: 10-9 Ayala
Round 11: 10-9 Tapia
Round 12: 10-10 Even

Total: 116-115 Tapia (actual scores: 116-112, 115-113 and another 115-113 all for Ayala)

Man, this was like their first fight with razor-thin rounds. I scored that one a draw and I would go along with a draw here as well. I watched with Steve Albert and Bobby Czyz commentating. And believe me, two of the biggest Tapia cheerleaders going. I don't have an issue with that in any walk of life, but in those roles, they're supposed to be a bit impartial. Anyways, I enjoyed the fight.

 

Sal, I was a bit more generous to Espada than you were but I was nowhere as generous to the Puerto Rican as were the judges. But a very enjoyable fight.

Pipino Cuevas - Angel Espada II (welterweight title)

Round 1: 10-9 Cuevas
Round 2: 10-8 Cuevas (Cuevas scores a knockdown)
Round 3: 10-9 Cuevas
Round 4: 10-9 Espada
Round 5: 10-9 Cuevas
Round 6: 10-9 Espada
Round 7: 10-9 Cuevas
Round 8: 10-10 Even
Round 9: 10-10 Even
Round 10: 10-10 Even
Round 11: 10-9 Cuevas
Round 12: Espada could not answer the bell for the 12th round with a broken jaw

Total through 11 completed rounds - 108-103 Cuevas

Official scores were 106-104 Cuevas, 104-104 Even, 108-106 Espada. Don't know what fight that last official was watching but can't quite see that one, even by giving Angel the three even rounds. To begin, Espada really is a beautiful fighter to watch, but he was up against a force of nature in Cuevas. Cuevas will just plug away throwing bombs for however long the fight lasts and couldn't care less if he missed 4 if he could land one. The rounds I gave Espada he fought brilliantly using the ring and going in and out with beautiful counters. And some of those counters would have taken out a lesser man. Amazing that I had 3 consecutive rounds even but that was how the tide was rolling. By the 10th round, although I scored the 10th even, more from Espada preventing Cuevas from doing anything, one could see Espada was really coming apart at the seams and it was just a matter of time. Good fight for purists and for those who also like a bit of mayhem.

 

Luis Rodriguez v Gene (Ace) Armstrong (NY rounds scoring)

I know I've said it in the past, but I just love these old MSG bouts, and particularly, love Luis Rodriguez bouts. Ace Armstrong's people chose the wrong fighter to make a comeback against (out for 16 months due to a rib injury from Dick Tiger). They could have given him a boost of confidence with some lesser fights, but back then if MSG comes calling, especially with a televised date, you probably have to take it. Anyways, no sense running a tally here. I gave all 7 completed rounds to Luis before he stopped Ace in the 8th. It should be noted that Rodriguez dropped Ace in the 4th and the stoppage in the 8th were both from Ace being caught in a blizzard of punches from the Cuban, rather than a one-punch that defined the event. Rodriguez simply had an engine on him that wouldn't quit, while he rained jabs, combos and body punches on his opponent. Not a big banger, but a remarkable fighter.

 

Sorry if i sounded bit harsh in my write up that wasn't my intention.

As for the fight ? yeah i enjoyed it was a nice technical boxing display with Tapia trying to box more instead of slug like the 1st fight.

The fight was closer than i remembered though, but i do feel like Tapia did look very good in the rounds he won. But obviously the judges liked Ayala's extra power punches and aggression.

I still don't think Tapia was given enough credit for his elusiveness/defensive skills though, he did make Ayala look pedestrian in some of the rounds.

 

Don’t know exactly when I get to it as I’m traveling tomorrow for a wedding and combining it with a little getaway time and won’t be back til late Wednesday (and I’ll be enjoying New Orleans a bit much for fight-scoring, I hope) and then back into the work fray pretty much through the weekend, but you’ve inspired me to revisit Cuevas-Espada III.

The third installment was a nice treat ESPN (back when it was just scrambling for programming, didn’t have set deals with major college and pro sports) threw at us on IIRC a Friday night late (West Coast time) with little fanfare.

I saw an ad or mention on something else I was watching on the channel (it was hardly a network in those days) and was super excited to get to catch Cuevas against a known quality opponent in Espada (whom I had never seen fight but wasn’t some ‘give me a bag, I’ll give you a title shot’ contender of the ilk who would often turn up in WBA title fights. Chick Hearn on the call from I think the Forum in LA.

It was one of those where you could see Espada was overmatched, as I recall it, but he threw every slick move and bit of guile he had into it, showing well at points but just not quite able to turn a tide or keep up with Pipino. I assume it’s out there to be found on the YouTube. Whenever I do get to it, I will, of course, post my scorecard report here.

Thanks to you and @scartissue for your scores on this second fight as I don’t think I’ve ever seen it. Cuevas was a bit of a shooting star with a rough beginning (turning pro at 15 fighting grown men will do that for you) and when he hit the wall with Hearns he truly never regained his menacing form … but lord was he a force of nature during that title run. As you mentioned, he could have collected broken jaws on his trophy wall like hunters collect deer antlers.

 

Scar, I may not have given as much credit on the cards to Espada as I might, perhaps, but I just thought that despite the wokr Espada was doing (and he was fighting, it wasn't a case of him just lying against the ropes absorbing punches), I thought Cuevas always dictated the tempo and the ring at more or less all times. Espada did flash a neat right counter here and there but to me it wasn't enough to award the full ten points save for the sixth. But that's why more than one guy acts as a judge in fights!

Well, except in Britain.....

 

Fulgencio Obelmejias KO8 Chong Pal Park

I'll be honest, this was not the most artful thing in the world. To be brutally frank, neither is all that great a fighter, but sometimes a simple mix of styles in just the right way can alleviate the concern for any dearth of greatness and provide a scintillating encounter that elevates both men and reminds us of the tenuous, often unpredictable beauty of the sport. This was not one of those.

Park has an opportunity here after being floored at the end of an uneventful first round. He takes the second and third by awkwardly attacking with winigng hooks and overhand rights. Rarely in combination, and never set up properly with jabs coming in, but he's throwing Obel off a bit with his quirky lunging. Park would have done so much better by jabbing his way in and alternating head and body attack, but everyone's an armchair quarterback I guess. Easier said than done, I know.

Obel, for his part, could also have done better. Park's charges were infrequent and had no staying power. Otherwise, he stayed comfortably at range. If the Venezuelan could have established a jab that discouraged some of the lunigng, it would have been even easier than it was and he would have looked better, but Obel chose instead to potshot with both hands with his arms down.

He began to pick apart the Korean after the third, and Park, though occasionally breaking through with shots, simply couldn't find the range. After hurting Park in the eighth, Obel found him a very easy target for the follow-up power shots that conveniently deposited him on the canvas for the count.

Don't know that I would recommend this, it was a fairly tepid affair. Early in their careers, from back in 1981, so perhaps it was little more than a learning experience for them both. Showed why neither was truly top tier as a middleweight though.

1. Obel (10-8)
2. Park
3. Park
4. Obel
5. Obel
6. Obel
7. Obel
8. Obel floors Park and he is counted out

68-64 Obel at the time of the knockout.

 

Fury vs Ngannou

Did not score the entire fight

Had the 3rd 10-9 Ngannou and also scored 7, 8 and 10 for him while Giving Fury the 9th

Best case scenario is 95 points for Fury

I came away pretty impressed with Ngannou and was glad to have been wrong in my prediction and see a competitive fight after the PPV and the long wait to the main event. Francis fought a disciplined fight, fought out of both stances, was not bullied in the clinches, and had a decent gas tank all things considered

Fury who I feel has become too reliant on working over his opponents in the clinches and mauling rather than through skills was unable to manhandle a 270 pound muscle bound guy with wrestling experience. Fury looked lost, after the KD I was thinking here it is kinda like when youre sparring and you crack your sparring partner in a light session and they come for pay back. Fury surprisingly could not get the offense going, struggled to throw combos or lead.

Maybe Fury took him totally lightly, maybe they both held back to put on a good show, either way Fury looked terrible and likely deserved to lose

 

That's exactly right, Sal. And I say, well done. That's what makes this thread so enjoyable, The different views and sharing we have on each fight.

 

LOL, artfully put haha.

 

Thanks for pointing that out, Saintpat and great set up, Sal.