How Many British Heavyweights Have Truly Been World Class?

Agreed. Cooper was quite proven at World Level, having faced several and beaten a few Ring-Rated contenders during his career.

 

Hi Buddy.
Regards Cooper being world class, or not, may be losses to , Erskine twice, Rischer, Patterson, Bygraves, Johnson, might point to the latter, or maybe not, my interpretation of world class, would mean you would have to have beaten world class fighters, my memory isn't what is was, but don't remember Cooper doing that on several occasions, but that's just my opinion.
nice to chat mr magoo, and always have time to listen to what you have to say, stay safe.

 

Thank you, Sir and likewise

 

Well - I suppose it's back to what criteria one uses to qualify a World Class fighter.

Cooper did lose to Erskine twice - both bids for the British Title (and the second including the Commonwealth Title) in his first few years as a Pro but, ultimately, went 3-2 with Erskine, in the years that followed. He also went 1-1 with Bygraves in those earlier years.

Beyond that and to the best of my knowledge his Ring-Rated Wins were:

#2 Rated Folley ('58)
#8 Rated London ('59)
#7 Rated Miteff ('60)
#10 Rated London ('64)
#7 Rated Hilton ('66)

He also, to be fair, registered several Losses against Ring-Rated opposition: Folley ('61), Ali ('63), Rischer ('64) - and, of course, lost his title bid against Ali ('66), followed by a loss to Patterson the same year.

Cooper wasn't on the elite tier, but he did enough to count as a World Class operator for my money.

Just my take on his results.

 

What's the criteria for British too perhaps if we're including Lennox. I just can't consider someone who won the Gold for Canada a true Brit.

 

It depends on what your criteria is for "world class" technically Cooper could be considered world class as he did enter the lower end of top 10 rankings now and again. But i always considered Cooper to be British/European level fighter that had an above average left hook.

If you look at the most notable fighters of the 60s Ali, Frazier, Liston, Patterson, Ellis, Quarry, Bonavena, D.Jones, Johansson, Williams, Terrell, etc. Those are the kind of fighters i consider world class from that era, and i feel like Cooper was definitely a level below all of them hence i don't consider him world class from that era personally.

 

Lennox Claudius Lewis was born in Hampstead London England which automatically makes him not only a Brit but a London Cockney to boot. But some wise guy type tried to goad him by saying " Your Mother is Jamaican, you were born in London, You went to Canada to join your Mother at 12 yrs old. Boxed for Canada in the Olympics Then came back to England as a pro. What nationality are you " ? Lennox grinned & said
" Well seeing as I'm the Undisputed World Heavyweight Champion I guess I represent the World don't you" ?
That shut the loud mouth up real good LOL

 

World class seems to be a subjective term and I hear same discussions over many different sports too. I remember when our British no1 tennis player Andy Murray was competing against those three monstrous freaks of nature…Nadal, Federer and Djokovic. I had a heated discussion with some guy about whether Murray was world class or not…I said he most definitely was. This guy said he wasn’t because those aforementioned titans were so much more successful than him and levels above anything Murray could ever hope to achieve. I explained that simply because Murray was not at the very highest level right up in the stratosphere where those three guys operated, didn’t mean he wasn’t world class. He most definitely was world class… but not “out of this world” class like his three contemporaries.

And herein lies the rub. A world class boxer doesn’t have to necessarily be a top elite world fighter like the Alis, the Fraziers, the Louis, Lewises and Ngannous of this world. (Ngannou was my little joke of course arf arf). Or even those just below that ATG level. But to be in the worldwide top 10 consistently at least guarantees you world class status in your particular era.

Now if we were to narrow the parameters and let’s say how many British HWs would make an all time Top 100? Top 150? Too200? list of the best ever Heavyweights, then we may well reach some sort of grudging concensus.

Though compiling a list of top 200 HWs may well give us all raging headaches before it is even halfway completed! I once tried to do a top 100 list and found I had put Ken Norton in 3 times. I gave it up as too much hassle and went to bed.

 

You understand correctly.

 

Which means that Erskine, Richardson and Bodell should be in your list, surely?

Not absolutely certain, but I cant recall ever seeing Chisora universally rated, although, like the above three, Mason did make a brief appearance there.

 

No Richard Dunn? Lol

 

https://boxrec.com/wiki/index.php/The_Ring_Magazine's_Annual_Ratings

Just for consideration.

 

it is the Starting Point, but NOT totally accurate, inclusive or without bias leans - Financial & Nationalistic as well as Corruption over the years.

but a good starting point to allow a quick crab of Names and then to look further into all the Major Regions of International Boxing Nations.

LOADS of World Classed TOP Men, many to include & consider, many to remove from such lists too.