Is Tyson Fury Still A H2H Goat ?

He never was TBH, when you take a close look at his body of work.

 

Klitchsko is his own good win.

The fact he made Chisora 3 over giving one the other top guys a crack speaks volumes of the guy, his a fraud.

 

He never was in my book. Vastly overrated.

 

A lot of folks are having mental health issues nowadays...between the wars, covid, social/media agendas and misinformation, inflation and recession...

 

Not even top10 H2H HW.

 

In truth the UFC fighter is big and powerful enough to KO plenty of nostalgia greats.
And everyone seems to forget Wlad getting bullied by Peter, who was no less crude, basically the same fighter, except smaller and with a worse chin.

Sure, Fury should be beating him and not getting KD'd, but Fury was clearly underestimating the opponent and has an idiot overconfident trainer too, who keeps telling Fury to walk forward and KO everyone as though he's training a KO artist.

Let's see what Fury does with Usyk, because he still has a very good chance of winning if he prepares properly.

 

Yeah have another Halloween fim under the belt so onward flies the bird.

 

"In truth the UFC fighter is big and powerful enough to KO plenty of nostalgia greats."

People don't like to admit that sheer size, strength, durability and power can beat skill but on some level we all know it. Intuitively we understand that an elite fighter from one of the lower divisions would have zero chance against Ngannou in a boxing match, in a fight that would be unethical to make. 6'3, 218 lbs 70's Foreman utterly demolished Frazier and Norton in 2 rounds and that wasn't because Foreman was a highly skilled boxer. He was a very aggressive physical freak with about 6-7 years of boxing experience.

 

It's his height, size, reach and good footwork that make him a H2H nightmare for anyone. Sure, if Fury was 6'2 he wouldn't be affective, but he's not 6'2, he's 6'9. He's always going to be 6'9. He uses these attributes to his advantage, as he should.

It's like saying Shaquille O'Neal wouldn't be a great basketball player if he was 6'2, of course, he wouldn't be a great basketball player if he was 6'2.

 

I think you misunderstood. No one is saying Fury shouldn't use his height and reach to his advantage. That's common sense. We are discussing his objective skill in the p4p sense: "is this something other boxers should be using and studying?"

The point is there's a difference between a big guy who uses his size as a crutch and a big guy who actually has noticeable skill other fighters can use. Having long arms is not a skill, but being able to consistently keep a smaller fighter at the end of your jab is a skill. Being strong is not a skill, but being skilled enough to consistently outwork a guy in a clinch and grapple him into the position you want him to be in is a skill. Being tall is not a skill, but being able to sway or use head movement to dodge punches and frustrate a shorter opponent is a skill taller guys can use.

In some Fury fights, he does display obvious skill. He has tricky footwork, sometimes shows good head movement, herky jerky upper body motions to make himself harder to hit or feint, etc. But in many fights he ends up just relying on his size to win. A fighter like Joe Bugner had skill, he could parry shots, had a good guard, could counter punch, knew how to use the ring, etc, he wasn't just content to use his height to his advantage. An obvious example of a guy on the opposite extreme would be Mariusz Wach who doesn't bring much to the table other than his height. I'm not saying Fury is as bad as Wach, and he actually does a few things better than Bugner, but the point is Fury does tend to just rely on his size to make up for his lacking in certain areas.

If we use basketball, Shaq had plenty of skills besides just overpowering people so I'm not sure why you brought him up. He had great ball handling, decent passing, excellent defense, could box a guy out from under the rim like no other, etc. He still has many skills that a smaller guy could copy and use.

 

Never was. At least as overrated as Wlad.

 

Never was

 

This is what you said regarding if Fury was a H2H problem for any other heavy weight:

"-Fury was heavily getting by on his tremendous weight and height (pun intended). The guy is NOT a "high IQ" technician. He knows enough to competently maneuver around the ring and win rounds, but I would attribute at least 60-70% of his success to his size. In other words, a smaller guy with Fury's skill and ring IQ would be a mediocre contender at best."

I interpreted that as, if Fury wasn't so big and tall he wouldn't be successful. I completely agree with that statement. Saying something like that though is ridiculous. It's like getting into a drag race with a Lamborghini and you're in a Toyota Corolla, losing the drag race and then stating I only lost because I was going up against a Lamborghini.

This isn't a PFP discussion, it's a H2H discussion. The idea is, put Fury in with any other heavyweight that's ever boxed before, would he be a problem? The answer is yes, because of his size and height which he uses to great affect.

 

You're talking about multiple things at the same time.

I even clarified to you that I'm saying Fury's actual skill is not as remarkable as people think. I am judging him both by how he looks in his own era AND the eye test (how other boxers would look attempting to copy his skills). There is nothing ridiculous about me saying he would be less successful if he were smaller. I think Bugner would still be a successful defensive fighter if he were smaller because he had good defensive skills regardless of his size. I think Joe Louis would still be a frightening boxer with his crisp combinations/accuracy/etc because his technique was superb, not just because he was a big guy who hit hard. I can't say the same for Fury.

You are posing the question if Fury's skills would enable him to win in other eras purely from a h2h sense which a totally different conversation and not exactly what I was getting at. And to address what you said, no, I don't think Fury would be some h2h godly monster in any other era. His resume does not support this notion.

 

This Era has been strongly over rated and this was proven at the weekend.....His best win was against a 40 year old past his prime Klitschko.....Fury was never an ATG.!!!!