Is Tyson Fury Still A H2H Goat ?

JT the Wilder rubber match was Fury's career defining victory but thank you for the meaningless bait and switch on David Hayes predictions ... Fury weighted the same for that fight as he did against Francis. Now can you specifically tell me when he gasses against Francis ?

 

As can and has happened in the past, when a strong favourite like Fury does it unexpectedly tough, analysis’ can overly focus on the assumed deficiencies of the favourite, not so much the positives of the opposition before them.

I’m not going to knee jerk and overstate Francis’ performance - it was good to very good absolute and it was excellent and above in relative terms (accounting for the cross over and zero experience as pro boxer).

Ngannou fought smart, utilising what he had but not overreaching. He was also cool, calm
and collected.

He had a clear strategy, displaying nice on your feet boxing IQ as and when required.

As the rounds rolled by, Francis was clearly tiring (mouth open since round 2) but he still held himself more than viably. However, wisely, and by necessity, he had to be very careful and considerate re his output and overall movement.

His formed and reactive defence was good and it appeared tailored to Fury’s style of offence.

In the early going, Francis was catching quite a few of Fury jabs with his gloves, very nice to see.

Ngannou’s hand speed probably surprised a lot of people, including Fury.

Prior to the fight, on another thread I entertained the possibility that Francis was “sandbagging” in several of his pre fight training videos - he appeared impossibly slow. Lol.

Francis also met fire with fire when Fury elected to overtly try on some wrestling and mauling. Tyson was negated.

Fury clearly became frustrated - the flagrant and intentional elbow being just one indication of that frustration.

In close, Francis not only proved to Fury he couldn’t be outmuscled - he also showed he could let his hands fly. He was happy to try the uppercut, though they missed, they made their presence known - funny, Francis did almost execute his own, Fury-esque self uppercut.

Francis’ game only became notably a bit more loose and sloppy as he began to tire - so that quality drop might be directly attributed to stamina rather than a lack of discipline. That allowed for a few more Fury jabs landing between the gloves.

Otherwise, Francis appeared to know exactly what he had to do (and how to execute) in there. He was however still subject to a debutant’s untested, unconditioned and likely limited tank - but again, relatively and perhaps surprisingly, he upheld the ability to go 10.

Ngannou also took several shots from Fury which had some nice heat on them. Another revelation was that Francis wasn’t going to fold like a cheap suit when tagged solidly. In fact, he let Fury also know that he would fire back in the same instant.

Overall point being that there were a number of assumptions that Francis defied, aside from however you rate Fury’s performance.

Had he not defied all those assumptions or any particular one of them, the fight might’ve have gone the way many had predicted.

Aside from his more asinine and derogatory episodes, Fury can be compelling (imo) when it’s innocent fun and when he’s being particularly candid.

I don’t support Fury’s conduct in terms of who he is and isn’t fighting - but love him or hate him, he has garnered great attention to the sport for his larger than life personality.

I might call this IV below, Fury Unplugged. Very introspective and honest, imo.

Credit to Tyson for not so severely downgrading himself or understating his prep as to impugn Ngannou’s performance.

I liked his answer to how Francis might fare against other HW contenders.

Fury basically answers “I don’t know, I just know he gave me a very tough fight”. Imo. a simple, sensible and honest answer.

You can only extrapolate (reasonably) and project a fighters prospects only so far based on limited data - that data being one pro fight against a specifically styled fighter - all be the opponent being one of the deemed top guys in the HW division.

Wow, looking back, apologies for the self indulgent rant.

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i haven't read the whole thread yet while i post this response.

i think fury just underestimated this guy. to be honest, i did., i underestimated this guy. but i'm not a professional boxer. i can get away with this mindset. tyson fury should have known better. i guarantee no other heavy weight will take Nganou (sp?) lightly. i'd like to see andy ruiz vs francis nganou. that would be a bad @$$ fight.

 

PS - As if I hadn’t already typed enough - anyone notice that Tyson hit the deck with about 44-43 secs left in round 3, rising at about what would’ve reasonably been a count of 5 or 6.

The ref arrives later to an already standing Fury still applying an 8 count (surely a reasonable count of 8 secs had already more or less passed).

I didn’t notice any issue with Francis going to a neutral corner - but it seems the refs tolling might’ve begun late. The ref waves it back with about 21 secs left in the round, effective recommencement at about 20 secs remaining.

I mentioned this on another thread in general but received no love. God how it hurts. Lol, kidding.

Is there something I’m missing here? Not saying it was deliberately bent to Tyson’s favour or that he gets KO’d if waved on sooner - but a 20 + sec break after a KD - with Tyson on his feet after 5 or 6 secs???

 

tyson fury is still the lineal champion.
he is still a top tier fighter.
he needs to fight usyk. he is losing luster with me. (although i am just a non athletic middle aged grandfather with no real relevance to fury he owes nothing to me)

 

"There is nothing ridiculous about me saying he would be less successful if he were smaller."

Of course it's ridiculous, it's like saying John Holmes wouldn't have been a famous porn star if he wasn't blessed with a 9 inch ****, or, if it wasn't raining outside I could walk outside and not get wet, or, I wouldn't be able to take a shite if I didn't have an arse. Fury is 6'9, he's always going to be 6'9. These facts are understood, they're undebatable intrinsic truths, there's no point thinking the contrary because it's got no basis in reality.

"You are posing the question if Fury's skills would enable him to win in other eras purely from a h2h sense which a totally different conversation and not exactly what I was getting at. And to address what you said, no, I don't think Fury would be some h2h godly monster in any other era. His resume does not support this notion."

It's a H2H thread, I naturally assumed that's what you were talking about.

 

Not on classic you haven't, it'd be very rare and on the level of Pat if so. I've seen guys claim GGG is the goat middleweight, but not in classic.

 

The rubber match simply isn't his defining victory. Christ, people were furious that Fury even had to fight Wilder again (legal demand) such was his dominance in the rematch. Every man and their dog thought he won the initial encounter and with more comeback rounds under his belt he absolutely monstered him in fight 2. The fight wasn't built up as his legacy fight at all. It was considered a fight that was not wanted let alone needed.

Bait and switch? you asked "Did he also slack off for that fight ?" I provided a pre fight source claiming he was indeed slacking off, which didn't surprise many. If you can't handle answers to your questions then just don't ask them.

Lastly can you specifically show me where i claimed he gassed? If you can't why are you demanding i show you?

 

I was just thinking that this is worse than Tyson-Douglas. At least Buster had 35 fights before then.

To echo the other posters, I really DKSAB anymore.

 

Chris Byrd can school him

 

There are tall fighters with more overall skill than Tyson Fury. There are tall guys who don't just rely on their size and have technique/ring IQ smaller fighters could use. So yes I can definitely point out he relies on his size. What are you not understating here?

 

Fair enough.

 

Okay, but for 1 like (thanks Pedro) still not feelin’ the love on this point. Now I feel vindicated to the letter. Lol. See article below: -

https://www.sportskeeda.com/mma/new...aching-8-count-16-seconds-social-media-erupts

 

If my **** was my arse, I'd never leave the house.

 

Do you agree that there are tall fighters who can have skills/techniques smaller fighters can use? Yes or no?