Did Jerry Quarry became underrated ?

Probably just a case of getting the actual contract under his nose a few days before Quarry's team did. Also, as you state, the Lyle fight in particular may have gave George's team food for thought. Either way, Kenny was more than worthy of a shot, no doubt there ,but so was Quarry.

But, despite this era of heavyweights being lauded more than any other, the title holders fought so many undeserving challengers (from Frazier-Daniels near the beginning of the decade to Holmes-Evangelista near the end, with the likes of Roman, Coopman and Dunn on the route) and Jerry was worthy of a shot ahead of about 80% of them. A good, active champion perhaps should have had his easy payday (Roman) a few months sooner with a Quarry fight later (or maybe a Frazier rematch) later that year.

 

Yeah, but closing out the year with a gimme after winning title is more forgiveable than Frazier's 1972 and Ali's 1977-78, I think. And George took on the two top challengers in 1974. But, sure, it's always easy with the rose tinted glasses and forget that there were a few years in the 70's without any worthwhile defences.

 

Quarry had 3 careers basically like Big George.... Jerry had his strengths and weaknesses.

I have seen Jerry live in MSG. I remember Big Mac Foster 24-0 with 24 KO's - Jerry took his best and went for the body and head until he broke down Big Mac for the Stop

I have seen him hurt and handle undefeated Ron Lyle

I saw him take Shavers bombs and land his own to KO Shavers in 1

I also seen him get off the Floor to KO Joe Alexander in Nassau Colosseum

Early on Quarry was mishandled by his father - career and ring strategy.
Under the guidance of Gil Clancy, he was smarter and patient.

Quarry had a good chin and if he would have fought George Foreman at that time, I would have put a strong wager depending on how big of an underdog he was.

by the last leg of his career, he was traveling with the group 3 dog night and drugs booze and a girl/wife that liked to party.

When he fought Ken Norton, he was a shell of himself, he rocked Ken and missed the opportunity and was very poorly conditioned.

In fight 1 vs Frazier he handled himself well but toe to toe with Joe was wrong strategy and Joe eventually took charge
vs Ali he had trouble with the speed.

Quarry had strengths Chin and power but could be hit and bled a bit. Unfortunately, he shared an era with Ali-Frazier

at 6 ft and solid chin he could handle the big slow guys and punchers

He made his mark in an era and was dangerous.

 

Hi Buddy.
Thanks for your very kind words, they humbled me, it is that much more rewarding when the words come from posters of whom I admire and have huge respect for, and you my friend fall squarely in that bracket, I have dedicated my years on this wonderful forum to making it more friendly, my aim is to bring posters together, despite the fact their views and opinions do not chime, it's a sport we all love, it's good for the site when older members pass on their experiences to younger or newer members, not in a bombastic manner, not in a gloating manner, but in a polite and instructive way, that way we can all grow and learn, despite 50 odd years following boxing, many a poster has enlightened me on fights and fighters, it's great, I have nothing but huge respect for the poster and his views whatever they may be, that's his opinion and he has a god given right to express it , as have we all.
Once again thanks for your words, I never take them for granted, chat soon Tin-Ribs, and above all, stay safe .

 

Hi Buddy.
Very, very, good post, and a very incisive breakdown of Quarry as a fighter, all of which I agree with, for those unfamiliar with Quarry and his career up and downs, they could do a lot worse than study your post, thanks . chat soon and stay safe.

 

No problem my friend, you're very welcome, and thank you likewise. I think I'd gladly sit with you and have a pint to talk boxing Mike. Well, a non-alcoholic one in my case, as my current tablets don't permit the old grog sadly

 

Only something in general (historical):

One of Jerry s opponents was the mexican Joey Orbillo, they fought in 1966:

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Orbillo was the only pro boxer from back in the day who knew Bruce Lee personally. Its also mentioned on his Boxrec page:

https://boxrec.com/wiki/index.php/Joey_Orbillo

 

You are right about Foreman being told to hurry up and fight a contender and Foreman was already in negotiations with Norton before Quarry walked up the steps to fight Shavers. The photo after of Foreman and Quarry after the fight were publicity shots with Foreman, Ali and Frazier all at that fight. Brenner did offer him decent whip to fight the winner but Foreman labelled both Quarry and Shavers as child's play for the likes of Ali and Shavers.

Foreman nabbed 700k for Norton while the Quarry offer was 1mil but again he was already in negotiations.

 

It appears so, but this was still after earlier negotiations with Quarry's team, so much that Gil Clancy stated he had a contract to fight George and wrote to the WBA & WBC to try and block the Norton fight. Foreman himself said he would meet Quarry- and that was about 3 months before he signed to fight Kenny.

And how about himself? Surely if he really felt that way (more cash / less risk) he'd want the fight even more? Obviously some of Don King's trickerations played a part in securing this fight for a smaller purse, something he was so good at.

 

Take a deeper dive and you should find that the "contract" was signed by two of Foreman's advisers but not Foreman himself which is why it wouldn't have held up i'd think.

No idea but there's every chance he was in there. At any rate Norton was i reckon the better name prior to Quarry - Shavers as he'd been swapping fights with Ali while Quarry had been playing it pretty safe since getting stopped by Ali.

 

Well, i'd imagine it wasn't binding, as nothing came of it. But the fact the Gil blew his top suggests Foreman (and/or his team) had agreed on it, at least in principle.

Fighting Ron Lyle was hardly 'safe' back in early 73, that was the win that got Quarry in the position for a proposed title shot in the first place- it even made its place on the Ring's cover as a potential fight, which would have been printed before Norton beat Ali The Ring Magazine 1973 June - July George Foreman Boxing | eBay . This was before Shavers and when Foreman suggested he would make 2nd title defence against Jerry. Norton then jumped the queue after the Ali fights. I've no qualms about Norton getting the shot, more a case of Quarry was the guy who lost out and had Foreman been an active champ than he would/could have been pencilled in for late 73 (probably around the time he fought Shavers).

 

From what I’m reading here, I understand that Foreman was paid less for fighting Norton than what was on offer for Quarry.

I’m guessing the figure in question for fighting Norton became even less so again after the Venezuelan Government baulked on its original undertaking not to charge tax on the purses -

Foreman was detained for about 1 week until he made the payment. That’s what I recall reading some years back anyway.

 

Tbh, before I really looked harder at Quarry’s career many years back, I superficially assumed he gained bonus rating points for being white. My bad.

As such, I underrated him and it was a revelation to have a closer look at his fights and the actual talent he displayed and the often high quality competition he engaged. . He was notably better than I had assumed.

Is he overrated now?

Perhaps a touch by some imo, but that’s just an opinion, subjective like anyone else’s.

At his best, he did take on some very tough customers, only losing to the truly upper echelon guys.

He did beat Shavers and Lyle in highly creditable fashion - and notably, via somewhat different applications of himself.

However it came to pass, they were two fighters Frazier never faced.

Also, Norton only engaged one of those two fighters (= Shavers) very late in the piece and got blown away.

Norton and Quarry finally engaged in 75, but Jerry was clearly beyond his best. So that’s 3 big names Jerry engaged (for a 2-1 record) that Frazier didn’t.

So it’s interesting to note that the broadly applied Quarry ran block on some very good fighters who didn’t get their own chance at Frazier and perhaps some other upper level guys. In his role as a contender, he did some convenient cleaning up.

While Quarry gave it his best, Smoking Joe was always going to beat him - and, of course, did so twice, but it precluded expansion of Joe’s own resume -

...and that lack of expansion included Joe’s following bout, a rematch vs Jimmy Ellis who Joe had already beaten emphatically and who was also on a losing streak as at the time Joe rematched him.

I think Jerry would’ve got over the top of Bugner had they faced one another - that would’ve been a nice addition to his winning resume also.

Foreman’s camp might’ve had some concern re Jerry, but I think that Foreman would’ve been ultimately too much for Jerry.

However, we never saw the proof in the pudding, and it seems the lack of a material match to look back on wasn’t for any lack on Quarry’s part.

A very tough hombre, with very good skills and a respectable punch who apparently held no fear of any man.

He clearly hasn’t been forgotten in any way shape or form after all these years.

 

Possibly, it's an extremely common occurrence in boxing and is still happening currently.

It goes to show how rapidly and early Lyle got overrated. It's mind boggling that he could be rated top 5 at the time of fighting Quarry with the resume he had. We all love a puncher. At the same time Quarry was unrated despite only losing to Ali and Frazier in the 70's to that point. Doubling back tho Jerry was fighting some pretty ordinary guys around those two losses.

Lyle was a good fighter if you stood in front of him but all at sea if you moved. Quarry moved quite a bit (except for a brief spell later where he gave Ron a shellacking) and schooled Lyle. Lyle was well treated by the ratings tho remaining top 5 for many years.

I see the cover of Ring also had Louis - Conn on the undercard as a potential fight, a 15 rounder to boot. I wonder who ducked that rubber match?

During our chat it's become blatant to me that Quarry was most definitely underrated comparative to a figure like Ron. Sometimes it's all about background, reputation and image.

 

Great assessment Pug, balanced and honest. I was building up to a spiel but you've done it better than i was going to. Quarry on the whole was a damn fine fighter for all the reasons you've mentioned.

Ron Lyle has a bigger 70's reputation (from what I've seen in here over many years) than Quarry i think but it's fair to say Quarry was notably better than Ron.