Who was the greatest fighter out of the fabulous 4?

Fair enough,thanks very much for your reply

 

What do you consider as the greater and more impactful discrepancy, how much better Hagler and SRL were than Duran in their respective fight/series, or the extent to which were both bigger than Roberto?

 

I’m not sure I understand the question

 

I would personally say Duran, but I can entertain arguments for Leonard.

 

Apologies, my question wasnt very clear.

I was asking what you consider the bigger gap, the extent to which Hagler bettered Duran in their fight or the extent to which he was bigger. Same question for SRL's 2-1 series win over the naturally smaller Duran.

E.g. Maxim beat SRR, but based on nothing other than that fight I'd consider SRR the better fighter as he was so much smaller. Louis beat Conn, but I think that fight does more for Conn's p4p standing than Louis. Etc.

 

P4P I think Duran.
Man for man I think Hagler.

 

Duran actually fought Hagler on somewhat close terms if I recall. And by 1983 was past his best. Middleweight was also pretty far removed from his natural best division. Therefore I have to credit Leonard’s win over Duran in 1981 as being better but I don’t know if that answers the question

 

It doesn't quite.

The point I was trying to make was that a peak LW going 1-1 during his prime vs the 2nd greatest WW of all time and suffering a competitive decision lost vs a top 3 all time MW, does more for his greatness, from a p4p perspective, than theirs, imo.

I.e. saying SRL is the greatest of the fab 4 because he came out on top in their respective series of fights, not only disregards their careers outside of fighting each other, it also ignores their natural sizes relative to one another.

 

But as I already stated in the thread, it wasn’t JUST about Leonard taking 2 out of 3 against Duran. Leonard’s Record against common opponents is 3-0-1. And every one of those was against an ATG. Furthermore Leonard didn’t lose to fighters in the level of men like Robbie Simms or Kirkland Laing.

 

As a thought experiment, What if Leonard doesn't get the nod in Hagler, or Hearns II?

Does that change the arithmetic in any way?

 

I think most people would say Duran & in this case I have to go with the consensus for the reasons already summarized by Ioakeim Tzortzakis. I also consider Duran the greatest boxer still alive active or retired

Have seen him in many peoples top 10 of all time lists as well but I am not educated enough about the sport that far back to comment on Greb etc in a comparative manner to give an unbiased view

 

I've no problem with you ranking SRL above Duran p4p, even though I have Duran clearly ahead.

I just think placing emphasis on H2H results is flawed when ranking fighters of different sizes. Maxim beat SRR fair and square, yet if this was the only fight either had, I would rank SRR higher. Same goes for Duran vs Hagler and in a losing series vs SRL.

You have to ask yourself, which is the bigger and more impactful discrepancy, the margin of victory or their respective sizes.

 

Understand and that’s fair. But I just think that wins over Hagler, Hearns and Benitez is better than wins over Buchanan, Dejesus, Cuevas, and Barkley. I also don’t think that losses to Duran, Norris and Camacho are as bad as losses to Laing and Simms. I get the whole p4p thing which is why I can see an argument favoring Duran ranking higher but given the vast difference in the strengths of their resumes and what highlights them, I think Leonard has a case. But I realize I’m in the minority

 

Nice to see two people can have different opinions without getting nasty.Makes a pleasant change

 

Fair enough.

For me it's a similar concept to Holyfield and Lewis. Lewis is the greater HW, Holyfield the greater fighter p4p.