Any chance of a new GOAT emerging in any category?

If Canelo beats Benavides, Beterbiev and Bivol in the next 2 years, he deserves a mention, if not GOAT.

 

nah...the talent is there, but nobody fights often enough. no way to get it done.

 

No, everyone is too protected

 

Not sure about GOAT at 175lbs but an ATG.

Head to head he is a monster too.

 

Junior/Super weight classes means movement up & down is easier, so less incentive to stay at one weight for yrs & dominate

For below 126 the incentive is always to move up as that's where the money & fame are. Far less people would care about Inoue if he stuck around at light fly (in any case physically impossible as he was having trouble even making 118 for his last fight there)

 

It's posts like this that make me hate the older era of boxing. I got into boxing watching guys like Robinson and Archie Moore but then posters like this overrate those eras so much. Greb had 30 wins over HOF's? Greb fought in the 20's and 30's. Barely fifty years have passed since the Queensberry rules were published. What constituted as being a HOF'er back then there there were 30 active HOF'ers for Greb to beat? OIh, You mean he fought the same HOF'er 8 times? That isn't comparable to todays sport.

Greb fought almost every week. Nobody fighting every single week is going out there in peak condition and the best preparation they can possibly have. They weren't perfecting gameplans to use against a specific fighter unless they had a rivalry against that specific fighter. Who cares which generation is tougher. The point is that if you gatekeep the ATG status by saying a modern fighter needs to have 30 HOF wins to overthrow somebody like greb you aren't being objective.

In my opinion, If a fighter in the current landscape had 30 wins over HOF fighters then they would have surpassed Greb a long time ago.

 

Exactly.

I feel like Ioakeim, and others who "overrate the past" have a tendency to state specific things that back up what they're saying. If I understand you correctly, how can something like resume not be objective criteria? What would It take for a modern fighter to surpass Greb in your mind?

 

Never happening. Much better chance of Benavidez beating all 3 of them though. Then going to cruiser and HW. He has a chance imo.

 

Passing the eye test and have a stacked resume for this era. H2H is often a toss up irrespective of resume.

 

14 different ones. Tunney, Walker, Loughran, the Gibbons brothers, Flowers, Rosenbloom, Dillon, Levinsky, Slattery, Norfolk, Miske, Smith and Hauck respectively. All of them in the IBHOF, the most in history beaten by a single fighter.

Don't misunderstand. The quality of a respective fighter beaten matters far more than sheer stats and numbers with no context, I'm just using them to make a point of how good Greb's resume is, as well as the other aforementioned fighters's careers. It's not as if Greb fought a HoF'er 10 times to beat him once, going 1-9 against him. Some guys who truly have rose tinted glasses for the old timers do that with the lesser ones, saying ''Well he might be 7-28 against them, but he still has 7 wins over Hall of Famers, just as many as Floyd does, so he is just as great''. Greb was consintently winning, he did lose some, but he proved his superiority over all his contemporaries at his best.

If you think Greb is too obsolete of an example when comparing him to today's era, then look no further than to guys like Ali, Duran, Leonard, Spinks, Hagler and Monzon when comparing the modern landscape to them.

 

How do you compare athletes across two different sports? That's essentially what we are doing. Boxing isn't anywhere close to the same sport as it was back then so why are we even comparing?

 

I think it's much easier to make a case for comparing current fighters to fighters of the 70's and later to where it may be worthwhile to have a conversation on it. But when it comes to pre-WW fighters nobody is ever going to agree on anything.

 

I don't believe so because of the quality of opposition. Not enough talent on his resume. Not his fault just who's around today.

 

another big win for roman or estrada at 115 and they have a shout, and if canelo isnt the greatest 168 already a win over benavidez probably does it, either of shigeokas could be 105 goat, if teo or haney were to stay around at 140 and clean house they may have a shout, and teraji could get a few big wins and rival chang jung koo. if edwards beats rodriguez and stays around he could be a modern flyweight great, i dont know if anyone really can compare to wilde so idk if thats a fair comparison

 

the way i see it in every division as far as the top guys are concerned, evry young fighter technically has the potential to become the GOAT but it is very unlikely

HW - a fighter would have to dominate great opposition for a decade to even be considered, one of usyk or fury would have to become undisputed and then defend the title a minimum of 10 times to even be in the conversation (unlikely with their age)

CW - one of the weakest divisions historically as nearly every great fighter there has quickly moved up so it could be possible though it would take some time as jai who is currently the top guy has only made one title defense and has beaten only one champion

LHW - absolutely no way bivol and beterbiev are both in their thirties and would have to dominate for another decade to even be in discussion, and even then it might be questionable

SMW - possible, canelo would only have to make a few impressive title defenses against top opposition, he might not do so considering his age and his love of jumping weight divisions, but it is definately possible

MW - not a chance, zhanibek alimkhanuly who is currently the top guy is already 30 and has only won 3 title fights, he would need another 12 or so to be in the top 5 never mind number 1

SWW - definitely possible, while i have never been a big believer in charlo he isn't that far off, he would probably only need a few more impressive wins but terry norris and mike mccallum are catchable at least as far as their sww resume is concerned

WW - crawford is probably too old to achieve such a feat

SLW - prograis is probably to old to catch up to the 21 title fights cervantes has at the weight but lopez theoretically could though at this point it is way too early to tell

LW - no, just no, haney is already interested in moving up and no one else is worth talking about

SFW and FW - no fighter currently has more than 3 title fights at the weight so all of them have a long way to go

SBW - inoue would have to win the unification with tapales and then defend it at least 10 times to even be is the conversation with gomez's 17 SBW title wins

BW - obviously inoue has moved up so not much to talk about

SFlyW - estrada and ioka both already have really good wins at the weight but would need to beat the other and have a few more good wins before they could be considered, but considering their age i wouldn't bet on it

FlyW - sunny edwards and jesse rodriguez are both young and considering the fact that they are scheduled to face each other are clearly willing to face top opposition, however they have a long way to go as wild, canto and wonjongkam all spent nearly their entire career at the weight all had long reigns, though i am very exited to see their careers play out and them trying to make their case

JFlyW - kenshiro teraji is probably already top 10 in the division and could make a case though gonzalez, yuh, chang and carbajal are a tough group to dethrone, i would not be surprised if he ends up top 5 by the end of his career

Min - ricardo lopez's 23 dominant (other than than the alvarez fights) are tough to beat, cp freshmart has already had an impressive career, collazo and the shigaoka brothers are all good young champions, but currently no one is even close to lopez