Is DaVarryl “Touch of Sleep” Williamson underrated?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Redbeard7, Dec 4, 2023.


  1. Redbeard7

    Redbeard7 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Started boxing at 25, amateur record of 120-17-1 (almost entirely at HW rather than SHW), 103 wins inside the distance, won the U.S. National Championships (96’, 97’, 98’) and the National Golden Gloves (96’, 99’) a collective five times, turned pro in 2000 at 31.

    Going into the Wlad fight, 36 year old future Byrd title challenger 20-2 Williamson had 17 KO wins.

    Williamson was a 7/2 underdog against Wlad, 371 days removed from having been flatlined by Joe Mesi in 106 seconds.

    “DaVarryl is a guy with a good amateur background, good right hand, good puncher” - Emanuel Steward

    Only Sanders and Fury took less punishment against Wlad and only 2005 Peter arguably came closer to beating Wlad out of the 64 opponents who lost to him.

    Williamson was the only fighter to beat former WBC champion McCall (233 lbs) in McCall’s 19 fight stretch between Lewis 2 and Gomez 1, 40 days after Williamson had lost to Wlad by a controversial headclash/cut-induced “5 round split technical decision” with the fight in the balance, having knocked Wlad down in the 4th round. Williamson regarded the stoppage and the result as a robbery.

    Wlad avoided a Williamson rematch, despite the controversial and inconclusive nature of their fight and the winner of a rematch being next in line to challenge Byrd. This resulted in Williamson leapfrogging Wlad in the IBF rankings, much to team Wlad’s frustration.

    “I don't see any sense in fighting Williamson again. For me this fight will not be a step forward. I understand his reasons for wanting to fight me. It's prestigious and financially favourable for him. But for me this fight will keep me at the same spot.” - Wlad Klitschko

    "Rematch? No way. The styles are all wrong. Wladimir didn’t need this fight. The public almost surely wouldn’t want to see it again. It’s a wonder why they didn’t crack heads earlier. Both guys were dropping their heads down and reaching out punching wildly. Vitali and Wladimir both grew up fighting the European style and they still haven’t got it out of their systems despite all their natural talents." - Emanuel Steward

    Apparently “the public wanted to see” Wlad return to Germany in a 10 rounder against lightly regarded unranked Cuban cruiserweight Eliseo Castillo instead (the significantly inferior brother of Elieser Castillo, who Williamson had beaten by a 4 point margin 12 months prior). Something’s not adding up here Manny.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2023
  2. Redbeard7

    Redbeard7 Boxing Addict Full Member

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  3. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt FROM THE RIVER TO THE SEA Full Member

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    He was a solid contender, for a brief period of his career - roughly a quarter (3½ of fourteen active years). After that, not so much.
     
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  4. catchwtboxing

    catchwtboxing Loyal Member

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    No. Pretty bang average, actually.
     
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  5. Fogger

    Fogger Father, grandfather and big sports fan. Full Member

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    Williamson may be underappreciated but I don't believe he is underrated.
     
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  6. The Long Count

    The Long Count Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Meh. He ran around the ring looking pretty scared to engage Wlad until the flash knockdown. I wouldn’t have wanted to see a rematch of that. He had some pop. But was bang on average other than that. As for Castillo he had beaten Michael Moorer if memory serves me right, and that’s when Wlad fought him. In retrospect Moorer would look like the better name on Wlad’s resume had he beaten Castillo. But the better man won and Wlad beat the better man with zero trouble.
     
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  7. vast

    vast Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    No. He was never anything special. Competitive journeyman.
     
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  8. Redbeard7

    Redbeard7 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    "I wouldn’t have wanted to see a rematch of that."

    That was clearly just an excuse to duck a rematch. Wlad's next fight was a nonentity in Eliseo Castillo in Germany, at the expense of Wlad's IBF ranking. Castillo had beaten a 251 lbs Moorer by 7-3 decision and he was the worst of the Castillo brothers, the other of whom Williamson had already beaten. Moorer was over 7 years removed from his last notable win; a majority decision over Bean, though many would say that wasn't notable. A decade removed from beating Holyfield. There was far more intrigue in Wlad-Williamson 2 than in fighting that guy. But also far more danger in the former, hence it didn't happen.

    "He ran around the ring looking pretty scared to engage Wlad"

    Wlad was having a lot of problems landing and Williamson was having success with sneaky counters, hence he put Wlad down. At the point of the cut stoppage with 5 of 10 rounds to go the fight was in the balance (it was a 10 rounder in the first place because team Wlad were worried about Wlad gassing down the stretch, as he did early vs Brewster). Wlad looked in serious trouble and could have easily lost had it continued.

    "But was bang on average other than that."

    His footwork was much better than the vast majority of Wlad's opponents. He was taller and longer than most, and had good power and experience. He also believed that he could win and had a viable gameplan. That puts him well above average.
     
  9. Redbeard7

    Redbeard7 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    What is the distinction in your view?

    Of course he's underrated, here's cast-iron proof:

    https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/choose-five-wlad-victims-to-beat-prime-joshua.713346/

    Of the 10 Wlad-victims listed he's joint bottom with 2014 Pulev as a candidate to beat Joshua, who got shut out and stopped in 9 when he fought Joshua. Without my vote Williamson would be the absolute lowest.

    This is despite Williamson arguably coming closer to beating Wlad than any other Wlad-victim, with the possible exception of 2005 Peter (who is a clear top 3 pick, along with Haye and Povetkin). And taking less damage than any Wlad opponent in 69 fights barring Sanders and Fury. And the fact that team Wlad blatantly ducked the rematch.

    The plodding 5'11 Chagaev has 4.5x as many votes as the taller, longer, quicker and more powerful Williamson.
     
  10. The Real Lance

    The Real Lance Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    This ^. Good boxer, big punch. But lacked what was needed to make the jump to the next level.
     
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  11. The Real Lance

    The Real Lance Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    :lol: you're silly poll doesn't mean Williamson was underrated. Get a grip man....
     
  12. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt FROM THE RIVER TO THE SEA Full Member

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    Right but we're talking about HW. All that ^^ contextually for the heavyweight division (never historically a bastion of p4p skill) equates to "pretty good contender". :deal:
     
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  13. The Long Count

    The Long Count Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    meh you can spin it any way you like. He ran, that’s why he lost on the cards at the time of stoppage. It wasn’t a good fight because he didn’t want to engage. Flash knockdown aside he would have been swept every round on the cards. He could punch but it takes more than that to beat an ATG
     
  14. Redbeard7

    Redbeard7 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    The result was a 5 round split technical decision, with Williamson having knocked Wlad down in the 4th

    Wlad was in clear distress at the time of the controversial headclash-cut stoppage, in a fight which most observers would agree was in the balance with 5 rounds to go

    Steward vehemently opposed a rematch based on "styles" and had Wlad fight an unranked unknown cruiserweight instead

    "He could punch but it takes more than that to beat an ATG"

    Puritty, Sanders and Brewster weren't great fighters, yet they toppled Wlad. Plenty of parallel cases could be mentioned too. Williamson was certainly better than Puritty and probably Brewster (who Williamson beat more often than not in the amateurs).
     
  15. The Long Count

    The Long Count Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I don’t believe the head butt stoppage was controversial. This is first I heard of it being controversial. It was clear as day a head butt and it opened a bad cut. The stoppage was the right call. Imo. Just because the cards said it was a split decision should not have made it so, Williamson lost every round of that fight save the flash knockdown. In fact he made it a stinker. Yes I will concede Wlad lost to some guys that were not greats and theoretically his opponent didn’t have to be great to win. Lennox Lewis got iced in 2 rounds by Mccall but we don’t pick guys like Williamson to beat him etc is the point. However This is before Wlad went on his outstanding 11 year run of domination. Or towards the start of it when he was still fixing some issues with Manny. Anyway the fight was boring because Davyrl didn’t want to engage. And flash kd aside it was a snoozer. I had 0 interest of seeing that fight again, and it has Nothing to do with ducking, it has to do with it being a boring bout, and I’m sure most fans of the sport felt the same way. You may be the exception.